The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
1Credo
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

fact=knowledge=memory of personal physical experience

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
1Credo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 549 times Debate No: 66953
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (3)

 

vi_spex

Pro

facts dosnt exist beyond my own memory, to suggest they do is suggesting I can see others memories
1Credo

Con

"facts dosnt exist beyond my own memory"

Facts do exist beyond one's own memory. Here are a few examples:

2+2=4 whether you remember it or not
Barack Obama is the President of the United States whether you remember it or not
I have five fingers on each hand, whether you remember it or not

"to suggest they do is suggesting I can see others memories"

I have given three examples of facts existing independently of one's memory. None of these three examples hinged on suggesting that one can see others' memories.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

the past is not true, only now is true

so 2+2=4 is now

I have to imagine you have five fingers on your hands, I have no observed this, therefore It is not a past observation to me
1Credo

Con

"the past is not true, only now is true... so 2+2=4 is now"

2+2=4 now and 2+2=4 an hour ago. This fact in particular is independent of both memory and time.

"I have to imagine you have five fingers on your hands, I have no observed this, therefore It is not a past observation to me"

It is not necessary for every fact to be visible. For example, 2+2=4 is not visible. It shouldn't matter that it isn't visible, as the argument shows that facts are independent of memory.

In order to win this debate, you'd need to show that these facts (and others, if you'd like more) are not actually facts unless you remember them.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

the thing is, 2+2 is an equation, and equations are true not about truth

the past is 0, and now is 1, I can have 1 soda in my hand now

if I have to imagine it.. clearly its not a past observation

is it true that I just looked at my dog? actually, I dont have a dog, but am I lying about not having a dog thus it could be a fact, but how do you know since you have to imagine it?

fact=knowledge

not belief
1Credo

Con

I don't think a single point you made in your last argument (or in any of your arguments for that matter) was relevant for this debate. In order to win the debate, you'd need to show that the facts I listed in the opening round are dependent upon the memory of a single individual.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

fact=past observation

2+2=4 is an equation, and its true. facts are not true, as true is now

did i just look at my dog?
1Credo

Con

"fact=past observation"

Not necessarily. 2+2=4 is a fact, and this is something that was true 5 minutes ago, is true right now, and will be true 5 minutes from now. It is a fact independent of observation.

"facts are not true"

Facts are by definition true.

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

2+2=4 is an equation, in no way is it a fact, as it is absolute

i just looked at my dog is a fact, but you have no way of knowing that as you have to imagine it

true=matter

is my dog matter?
1Credo

Con

"i just looked at my dog is a fact, but you have no way of knowing that as you have to imagine it"

You've just proven my point; you admitted something which I have no memory of (you looking at your dog) is a fact. I take that to be a concession.

"is my dog matter?"

Yep.


I think we can reasonably conclude that all the facts in the world do not hinge upon the memory of a single individual. Facts are facts, independent of one's memory.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
I didn't get an answer.. so I asked again
Posted by Unitomic 2 years ago
Unitomic
It doesn't matter if you had a dog. You never completed the argument in Debate. You finished in it the rounds. That means you never completed it. It must be in the rounds. You essentially have a pointless case so far as voters are concerned.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
is it true that I just looked at my dog? actually, I dont have a dog, but am I lying about not having a dog thus it could be a fact, but how do you know since you have to imagine it?

round 3, so tell me if he got it right, what is the answer
Posted by Unitomic 2 years ago
Unitomic
no you posted the question of whether your dog was matter. The opponent answer. In the final round. The ends the thing. You can't continue your argument out of debate like that. You asked if your dog was matter, he responded. And that ends your point altogether. No making the point out of debate.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
i already said it in the debate
Posted by Unitomic 2 years ago
Unitomic
And actually it was also a cheap trick which won't be treated well by voters. Cheap Tricks aren't well liked.
Posted by Unitomic 2 years ago
Unitomic
You aren't allow to say that here. Your points must all be made in the debate rounds. Your comment here will likely cost you conduct points, and will not be treated as an actual part of the debate outside of that.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con makes something that is rational and valid.
Vote Placed by Unitomic 2 years ago
Unitomic
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: RFV: I don't give spelling. I usually don't give conduct, but Pro used part of an argument, and then gave the rest of the argument after the debate in the comments where Con couldn't refute it. Not only is this against DDO Etiquette, but it also nullifies that point. All that matters is whats in the Debate itself. As the point was not in the debate, we must treat it as though his case there went nowhere. Overall Pro's argument made no true sense, while Cons at least had coherency. Con also gave a source, giving him that.
Vote Placed by Rubikx 2 years ago
Rubikx
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Vi_spex's arguments just didn't make sense. They where flawed and grammatically they were horrible.