The Instigator
el13smith
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Sidex
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

fight club is the best movie ever made.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/1/2017 Category: Movies
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 500 times Debate No: 100450
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

el13smith

Pro

I believe that Fight Club (1999, David Fincher) is the best film ever created, and perhaps the best that will ever exist -- but this debate will be purely based on the fact that Pro (myself) is arguing that FC is the "best" movie. I will be using several arguments, some based purely on the wording of my argument or my opponent's. Con must prove in at least one way that a) FC is NOT the best b) another movie is better. "Best", in this debate, is being used to say that FC is simply the best qualifier out of any options my opponent or I will bring up, and that it has the highest amount of good qualities. I believe I have presented a proper introduction to this debate and to my opinion, and I will gladly wait for an opponent's point of view.
Sidex

Con

Well, I can't exactly argue here that your opinion is wrong mostly because I don't believe telling somebody is wrong in this regard. I believe our opinions can be wrong and should be addressed when they are, but when debating the "best movie" I have no strong position. That being said, I actually enjoy the Lord of the Rings Trilogy the most of all movies created(I suppose it would be accurate to say that I think its the best) for reasons I would like to share :). You're very beautiful by the way, unfortunately, your a little too young(physical age, not mentally). That being said, I accepted this debate because I love the passion in opinionated debating and I don't express my passion that often with more "objective" men(relatively speaking to the inherent subjectiveness of an opinionated debate). Don't worry, I'll try not to sound too much like a robot :).

Fight Club uh? Well besides Brad Pitt being so cute, what else do you like about it? I love the "take out your aggression in fighting" aspect to it. Oh how I wish I could debate with such passion of simply just "punching the other guy until one person gives up". The internal conflict in the main character to separate himself from the conformity of society is a trait that all young men(including myself) has. How I wish to be such a man, free from the expectations of society to undergo what I want whenever I want. I would ridicule the bully, stop the irrationality of the norm, fight for the very right for anyone to be happy. I would yell and scream for the underdog and stand up for the cries of the people oppressed from the accepted norm of society. However, my wisdom is what contains my passion. The hero does not act foolishly by fighting needlessly underground. My life cannot be my own, so I must accept the burden of which I carry.

The protagonist of Lord of the Rings, Frodo, carried such a burden for his world. He was the only one capable of carrying that burden because all others would have been consumed by such power. He didn't want that life, but it was still forced upon him. The ring consumed his soul slowly for power always has a way getting into the strongest of minds. His internal battle of resisting the ring clashed with his external battle of the journey to destroy the ring in a particular place, well-guarded by his enemy. This clash between the internal conflict and the external conflict, in my opinion, created a much more meaningful impact for me.

True power is always given to those who need it to save. It can never be given to those who simply desire to win. I actually do think that Fight Club is one my favorites. It was a good movie, I could Identify with that character very much. Obviously, he evolved into a "freedom fighter" which is the end of the movie, but even though I opted for the road less traveled, I still admire the resolve and completion of his character.

What other movies do you enjoy?

(Also I pretty much did the trilogy as one movie, but specifically without a doubt, The Return of the King was the best of all three (I loved Aragon's character as well, he had to do what he had to do for the sake of life as well). In my opinion, they did a basically perfect(I try not to be hyperbolic, but I personally find no fault in the movie) ending to the trilogy.)
Debate Round No. 1
el13smith

Pro

You actually proved my argument more, especially with your second paragraph explaining that you wish you could be as free as him. First of all, that's a beautiful thing that movies have the power to do -- make you wish you were in that situation, even as you're watching the character face their worst nightmares. Fight Club is one of those movies that makes you think, question, and wish. It is powerful and amazing in its way to change the minds of anybody who watches it, its ability to really make you look at things. Second, it's important for us to talk about the Narrator's importance in making the movie the "best" since you brought him up a bit. He's not free, most importantly. This movie is a great focus on human's ability to think we are free when we are not, to think we are loved and special when we are not. This movie is not just a movie about him, about the Narrator, but about us. We are the Narrator, we are Marla, and we are Tyler. We are Fight Club, that is what makes it the best.

You contrasted Frodo from LOTR and the Narrator from FC there in your argument too. I haven't seen LOTR, but I understand where you're coming from and I'm sure it's a good movie. But, does it make you wonder? Does it make you question yourself, your surroundings, your dreams, your friends, your emotions? Does it make you angry? Does it make you sad, and happy, and even grossed out all at once? Fight Club does that to you. FC makes you feel things and think things you didn't know you could -- it makes you sad for the Narrator while hating him (hating Tyler) at the same time. Does LOTR do that? Make you love and hate the same character? And FC has quite a bit of internal and external conflict too. You see, the Narrator has all of that internal conflict going on, and he uses "Tyler" to externalize it. Tyler is the physical conflict, the Narrator is the internal. That is what is important, that the movie is so complex and wonderful and absolutely angering and saddening at the same time. No movie has ever enabled me to think about myself and the world quite as powerfully as FC.

(To answer your question, I like a bunch of other movies from varying genres. Forrest Gump, for one, is another movie I feel I could hold a debate about the importance of. I also love Battle Royale. The Harry Potter and Hunger Games series-es are dear to my heart as well, and I recently fell in love with the Shanghai Noon series and The Neverending Story movies. I also have a soft spot for romantic comedies, which, when you look at it, Fight Club almost counts as one...)
Sidex

Con

Wow, exactly what I was suspecting in this debate, your heart as beautiful as you. I love seeing the heart at work, whether it be the Narrator expressing oneself in the story or whether it be a young woman expressing hers views of life. You are correct in saying the Narrator is "not-free". Often times when we narrate our own lives, our ambitions, our dreams, our hopes, our love, we can mistake them for not being free(I am not implying that you implied any of this). But freedom to me is to express one's feelings through logic, having logic incorporated into life that we have feelings and we will always act upon what we don't know; for such is the very existence of Humanity. Much like a Narrator expresses one in one's films, films being one's own logic.

>>>>>his movie is a great focus on human's ability to think we are free when we are not, to think we are loved and special when we are not.

I am trying to make a world where it's actually true that we can be loved. I understand what you were saying, but when I see these words, I see a person that knows the pain of being rejected simply because of one's brashness. Passion should drives us all, but sometimes it gets the better of us. What's most important at the end of the day is not whether we were right or wrong, it's having our loved ones be there to support us in the darkest and greatest moments of our lives. I disagree with saying that we are not special, for we are human, the first species that can create films for us to substantiate how we feel. We just have to find out what makes us human:).

Fight Club creates an excellent example for how we are as a people. But the main character is only acting to create chaos, not fixing why we have the problem in the first place. LOTR's main character did things to solve the entire problem, destroy the inherent evil that caused so many of his world's pain. FC only destroyed banks, not the inherent evil to why he destroyed them. FC was a path more about destruction rather than ending the misery. LOTR was more about ending the misery rather than simply destroying something.

It is not about how much power you have, but instead knowing when not to use it. "With great power comes great responsibility". A common wisdom in the Marvel films, where the hero does everything one can to save the day:). The very words we use to describe "who we are" have the power to change the mightiest of hearts. Even such a power should be "not-free". I want to express to my other opponent in another debate how even a 16 year-old "girl" will have more logic than he can ever have because of how he foolishly uses his "power" of words. But I know I must beat him with an objective tone so that his irrationality never poisons another mind. My overall point being that FC uses power to just destroy not save(I understand the argument how he's saving himself, but we can save ourselves with saving others as well) while LOTR saves everyone by the right means. That's ultimately what I'm arguing, the means to save is more to my liking with LOTR rather than FC(I understand he destroyed a few banks, but like I said it didn't solve the underline problem).

Sincerely the most luck one could ever wish to my opponent, for such a heart should always free :).

(Forest Gump is one of my favorites as well. I am autistic myself, so I can relate to his character of simply doing what only he knows to be true. The character's morality was truly an inspiration to me. Oh how I wish I could act as simple as him, but society didn't accept me like the people in the movie accepted him. That is the movie that made me feel miserable for being different(the hate you feel for Tyler). I haven't quite figured out how to love myself yet, it doesn't make any sense to me. But I have figured out how to love rest of Humanity, so I'm ok with that :).)
Debate Round No. 2
el13smith

Pro

I think that we need to draw the difference between the Narrator and Tyler. While I realize they were technically the same person, the Narrator did not want to destroy. I don't necessarily think he wanted to be a hero, either. He just wanted to be, to exist. And that's it. He was a very simple character, really. Just a normal business man that went a bit mad. He didn't mean to commit harm, but he didn't really seem to mind when he did... But his morality or lack thereof does not make him or the movie any less great. It's the complexity surrounding his emotions and Tyler and the morality-vs-fantasy thing that makes the movie fantastic. He knew he could do nothing to fix the world, or to fix humanity, because we (in his/Tyler's mind) are just garbage with brains. He wasn't on a path to destruction, simply a path to the emptiness and lack of life that he craved. Sometimes the best movies are about the worst people, and while the Narrator wasn't a villain, he wasn't really that great. But that doesn't matter, it shows truth. Humans aren't always good, and we just have to know this and accept this and move on because as the movie tries to show, life doesn't really have much of a meaning for some people (like the Narrator) and sometimes they just live to... live. Or to die.

Also, yes, I love Forrest Gump too. I'm glad to hear how his character helped and inspired you. It's a really beautiful movie.
Sidex

Con

You win, I don't really care about winning debates and I have failed to convince you that being the hero usually makes the better movie.

This was a great debate, thank you for the opportunity to allow me to express myself. You are very respectful and cordial, well reasoned as well. You should try more objective debates, it's good to practice both. I'm going away for a while, but I hope when I return I could continue a friendship with you. Thank you so very much :).
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Marta10 1 month ago
Marta10
shawshank redemption is the best movie
Posted by el13smith 10 months ago
el13smith
Also, I cannot say I've seen many Quentin Tarentino films... I've always kind of looked at him as a definitely good film-maker, but he takes some chances that are not necessarily good to make when it comes to scripting and such. Especially with his unapologetic love of having the N-word in his films for next-to-no reason...
Posted by el13smith 10 months ago
el13smith
Sidex, you didn't say anything wrong. It took me a while to get back to this debate because I had work after school. You should watch Pulp Fiction, for sure. I haven't seen The Hateful 8, though, sadly. There are many movies I need to see, still. LOTR, for one. I also want to see Se7en, which I have attempted to watch but was unable to really enjoy -- but I want to see the whole thing. There's lots more, really.
Posted by Sidex 10 months ago
Sidex
Tarentinos The Hateful 8 did actually go against his "underdog" routine and I will admit that I never have seen Pulp Fiction. I think really want to see it now.
Posted by Sidex 10 months ago
Sidex
I didn't catch the split personality either. Have you seen Cloud Atlas? That was literal foreshadowing over time. It's amazing to perceive Time that, it really changes your perspective.

Geeze, you really like the brash "get things done" attitude. Fight Club and Tarentino? Oh you must like his constant "edge of your seat" thrill. You barely can see when a character is going to die in one of his films(I like that). Although I think Tarentino is too cliche with his "underdog" films. They are too, "easy to determine the good guy and the bad guy" In my humble opinion, there really is little character development in his films, there's character objectiveness meaning the characters always have a goal and they face challenges, but the character developement(even in Django) is instant.

I don't deny Fight Club's brilliance, my favorite what I like to call "underrated"(meaning it really should have won best picture) film is Serenity. That should be one of the greatest films of all time. The tale of a lost captain trying to the right thing for the truth to be known; what a beautiful story. But as you can see I enjoy a good story more than how a film is made. Do you like Westworld?

I see that we are definitely interested in different aspects of life. I prefer to know people rather than see how things are done. I never studied film, but I enjoyed a good story.
Posted by elldog1997 10 months ago
elldog1997
Fight club is a brilliant film. The cinematography, the foresahdowing yet the preservation of mystery combine for a truly thrilling exprience, however, I must disagree, I myself have a strong position on this matter as I consider myself a lover of film. Having said this, I do not know what the best film in the world is, only that it was directed by Quentin Tarentino.
Posted by Sidex 10 months ago
Sidex
Hey listen, I'm sorry if I said anything wrong, I'm just trying to express myself.
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