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from a prolife perspective, abortionist tiller should have been shot...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 845 times Debate No: 30075
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
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he did them illegally... (and carhart does too


Luhra (Tivis) Warren, a former Tiller employee, wrote the following:

"I was required to falsify the medical records. But not just that, related to that, I was required to lie to the women over the phone. And the way he'd explain it to me was, without coming right out and saying it, these are really third trimester abortions, but we're going to tell them they're only in the second trimester. They would say, well, I've already had a sonogram, and my bpd was 7.8 or 8.3 or whatever. He said, when they tell you that, don't turn them away as being too far along. Tell them to come in, and we'll do our own sonogram, and it will show they're not that far along. Tell them that sonogram reading is an art, not a science. He explained to me that the bpd is a measurement of the angle of the baby's head, where at that angle, the baby's head is roughly egg-shaped. The usual way that you measure the bpd is from the top of the egg to the bottom of the egg, which is at the widest point. But we measure it from side to side, at the narrowest point." from Celebrate Life Sept/Oct 1994 "Where is the Real Violence?"

'late term abortion, cause the mom says she had too many kids'


"Jessica speaks out"

I wanted to say that I was a "patient" if you will of Dr. Tiller back in [2000]. I was married at the time & had just had my [4th] child very recently & had become pregnant again as my husband didn't want to wait. Anyway, we decided having 2 babies under 1 year old was not going to work for us with [5] children total, so after thinking about it we decided upon an abortion though it was painful to think about.

Well unfortunately I chose to use Dr. Tiller. We set up our appointment and this was a late term abortion by the time they got me in. I'm thinking now this was on purpose, its as if he likes doing them later term. I was I believe 26 weeks along which is pretty far in my book, but anyway.

First day was taking blood, sonogram to see exactly how far along I was, etc... which they wouldn't let me see the sonogram photo when I asked. They then gave me the shot into my cervix to insert the laminaria pack, which is the worst pain I have EVER to this day had in my life!! Don't think that was normal. I was then told to go back to the motel room (we were from another town) and be there at 10:00 am the next morning for the abortion.

Well I awoke around 7:00 am and from what I can figure was in FULL BLOWN labor. I was having contractions like I did with my other [4] children while in labor. I was feeling an urge to push even which was very odd, but I was in labor & mostly in pain. My husband FINALLY reached a nurse there (said it was a 24 hr number yet no one answered). They told me it was MY fault and that I was to be at the clinic at 6:00 am... yet the paper they gave me said 10:00 am and I was told 10:00 am.

Anyway... we got to the clinic, they didn't seem to even care that I was in so much pain. They took their time getting my IV in my arm & finally got me some pain medicine. There were about 5 other girls in this room with me (like a small waiting room with beds, etc...) and they all had already had their abortions done. I was last for that part of the morning. I'm guessing because I was farthest along. They all literally looked like zombies just lying there. It was creepy. I was not allowed to have my husband come back to see me or comfort me. Finally it was my turn. I was taken in & given a drug to almost knock me out. It's one where they say you don't remember things, but I do. I can remember Tiller half-delivering my baby, jabbing the scissors into his head, & killing him. Then just kind of throwing him to the side and finishing up.

When leaving there, they don't escort you out or anything. I could barely walk... it was about 2 degrees with lots of snow on the ground and protesters outside pounding on our car as we tried to leave.

The power went out IN THE MIDDLE of my abortion. It was only off about 5 minutes, but how safe does that make you feel? Then my husband was out front freaking out knowing I was back there & of course they wouldn't let him see me, didn't answer his questions or anything.

Anyway I'm sorry to go on. It's very upsetting. The worst part of this ordeal is ever since having this done, I have had NOTHING but problems with my female parts. I have had cervical dysplasia, which is bad cells in your cervix that require many painful treatments. I have pain with sex, which never happened before and just have general hard core cramping on a daily basis. I have doctor statements telling me my abortion caused the problems I now have.

I wanted to share my story. I'm glad your getting the word out about how horrible a man he is. I'm not saying I'm not to blame as well. I chose to do this, but I was told it wouldn't be a bad experience... it would be something that would be easy for me to do & have to go through. But instead, its been nothing but trouble since the day I had it done

he did them late term for trivial reaSONS...

[Tiller gave out a video called] "Philosophies and techniques of late term abortion services at Women's Health Care Services". In this video, Tiller talks openly about the reasons women come to Wichita for late-term abortion which include "occupational issues" and "financial issues".


Dr. Paul McHugh is a Professor of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. McHugh was hired by the then-Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline to review some of Tiller's records. McHugh said the records show Tiller performed abortions for trivial reasons. One woman even said she was having a late-term, abortion because she wanted to go to a rock concert. Click here to see Dr. McHugh's interview in Lenexa, Kansas on June 11, 2007.

political and legal process werent working.... while his death has caused less death

Study weighs threats' effects on abortion providers
Washington correspondent

WASHINGTON � An abortion rights group has found that doctors and clinics in six states, including Missouri, that perform abortions "are routinely targeted" for legal and physical harassment, including death threats.

The result, according to a study by the Center for Reproductive Rights � an international legal advocacy group � is that women seeking to terminate pregnancies face a dwindling supply of providers as threats and intimidation take their toll.

others have shown abortions that can not occur bc his place closed

we have just war theory, and defense of others if death is imenent. i think just war applies. otherwise we have defense of others.... while noy literally immeint who cares? we donty have to be just whatever orhodoxy says. its the point that matters. desperate times desperate measures.... defense of others but not truly immenient, a death will soon occur. understood not normative law or ethics.... but bottomline, if u are gonna kill us very likely etc... u should die. otherwise wed just be sticking to tradiotion of whats been allowed and overlooking the point involved, and not be a little more unorthodox.

bottomline... what if they were killing two year olds and it was generally legal? not only that what if it was illegal at times and efftive to shoot the few two year old killers? poltics and law werent working.... what is the moral thing to do?


The pro-life perspective does not uphold (nor conflict with) the idea of people getting shot for their misdeeds. The mission statement of pro-life organizations is to stop abortions--there is no general consensus on the type of punishment that should be enforced for those who engage in abortions. Can there be pro-lifers out there who are against the right to gun use? Absolutely--and on those grounds, they could argue that Tiller should not have been shot.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1


even if we acknowledge there can be differing views from a prolife perspective that doesnt mean i cant argue as i am that there are superior prolife arguments.
con is engaging in semantics instead of engaging on substance,,,, vote pro


I maintain that the "pro-life perspective" does not imply that abortionists should be "shot." We're not debating about which pro-life stances are "superior." I have nullified the resolution, and that's all I care about.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 2


u could argue there are many prolife positions, including some the dont require shootng. it seems u r doin worsr and actin like thats all i could argue.
con has only nullified a narrow less evident interpretation of the resoluyion
im just arguing why ideas shoul be considered better per prolife and my ideas are more self evidemt

vote pro


InVinoVeritas forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 5 years ago


We know from experience that closing abortion clinics saves lives. In 2006, Operation Rescue bought and closed Central Women�s Services, an abortion clinic in Wichita, Kansas. On the day we took possession of the building, we were able to speak with one woman who came for an abortion, but chose instead to keep her baby. The building was completely renovated and now serves as Operation Rescue�s national headquarters.

Over the ensuing months, many women have come to our offices seeking abortions. We have referred them to a pro-life pregnancy center next door where the director tells us that every woman who has come to them seeking an abortion at our former abortion building has instead made the decision to chose life for their babies.

Since the closure of Women�s Health Care Services in June, 2009, Wichita has become an abortion-free community. That same pregnancy center reports a dramatic increase in business and in requests for adoption information. Since abortions are not available in Wichita, more and more women who would have resorted to abortion as a quick solution to their problems have instead sought the help and support they needed to cope with their crisis pregnancies in ways that did not include the intentional death of their babies.
Posted by autodidact 5 years ago
lol, I am debating the same topic with Pro, i like how Con attacked this position. it is a different way of doing it than what I did.

Pro said "... that doesnt mean i cant argue as i am that there are superior prolife arguments."
I do wonder how pro is going to objectively prove such a subjective claim.
Posted by yuiru 5 years ago
Well... what is there to debate here?? One could just as easily say for example, from a Nazi's perspective Hitler was completely justified. It's the point you aren't arguing about the actual issue but are arguing whether someone holds a certain opinion.
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