Debate Rounds (5)
I also am against bullying and I believe that must stop. However, this is a separate issue from the legalizing of marriage that is not male and female.
I ask- who is it that wants to see things acceptable that hurt humanity: Who wants us to have it acceptable to overdose on drugs, to drink all the time, to do all these crazy things. The enemy and only the enemy of our souls desires it.
And we cannot vote to make a law anything that the enemy of our souls desires for us. That would be stupid. Let us not do that.
Freedom is the goal for everyone, but some things that you think will make you free actually make you less free. Instead they tie your body, mind, and soul in Chains. So, if for instance there was a law voting for our freedom to murder (or substitute something that some people might want to do that would hurt others or themselves) that would give them more freedom in one sense to murder, but it would not make them more free.
I argue that homosexual falls under the category of hurting others and self, except that the enemy ( the one who fell from heaven and took a third of the angels) is using weapons of deception to make people believe that it is not hurting themselves, and that homosexuality is a true form of love (when I believe it is not).* The enemy is then pushing for others to give a false sympathy, and the enemy also desires to create the idea that this is acceptable.
I believe that I have seen this in a vision, and that I have seen the enemy try to push this on myself as well, but I desire to argue against it, and reject it with every fiber of my being.
I too have friends who call themselves gay, and who are very talented and kind, but I still hold this position. For the sake of their souls, and for the sake of honoring whatever truth I believe comes from God.
*in arguing for true forms of love, I believe that 'Lust' is another form of false love. I believe in many ways we fall short, and that many relationships are based on false love. However, to make a Law that honors that would be giving the enemy all he wants. the enemy desires to create confusion, and has succeeded in some sense, but we must not make into the law of our country something that sides so clearly with those who wish to undermine God's laws.
2. It doesn't hurt you to get married! And just because you think it hurts people, doesn't mean that they can't get married. If it hurts people to get married, then why not just take marrage away completely? People won't be "Hurt" because no one will ever be able to commit a serious relationship with someone. At least that way it will be more fair.
3. Are you saying that every body who believes in gays getting married, (Most people in America) are possessed by Satin? Otherwise, who is the enemy?
I will try to respond to your points as best I can.
Point 2: 'It doesn't hurt you to get married. And just because you think it hurts people, doesn't mean that they can't get married. If it hurts people to get married, then why not just take marriage away completely.'
I believe you are saying that I have argued that it hurts people to get married. I argued that homosexual marriage falls under a category of hurting self and others. I believe that homosexual relations hurt self and others as much as homosexual marriage would, in the same way that lust and relations based on false love hurt others. I am arguing against the legalization of gay marriage because I do not desire to make a law out of something that is not truly real love, for the sake of the persons involved, and also for the sake of our country, that we may continue to secure God's blessing as much as possible by being in alignment with the laws made known to us and the laws written in our hearts.
Which perhaps will bring me to answer point number 1:
Not every body is Christian. How this is fair to all of the other religious people? What if my religion disagrees with yours?
I speak to these laws of God as someone who has searched for God. I also speak based upon personal vision, and the best way I can describe this is perceiving things to be of God and not of God. I believe the enemy (Satan and one third of the angels who fell from heaven) use many means to sway us from truth, love, and God. Because I have perceived in my dreams that Satan
I also know that when I speak what I believe to be God's truth in the best way I can, there is light, healing, and more perception that I sense. So when I speak against homosexuality, I do so through what I sense to be the perception God is giving me(mainly through dreams where I saw the outplaying of this relationship and with it sensed there was evil behind it- evil and confusion.)
So to your point number 3, where you ask if I believe that people who are gay are possessed by Satan, I say that I believe that the enemy (and many other fallen angels who aligned themselves to his plans) has ways of entering minds. Can the enemy enter your mind to possess you to desire to kill others (such as high school massacres). Those things have happened. Can he enter your mind and heart to possess you to enter into lust, or homosexual relationship? I believe yes.
Can the spirit of God also enter into one, to bring about healing, truth, wisdom, and many other things. I say yes.
The devil, however, wants to keep people tied to sin, and away from healing, miracles, and God's vision, by trapping people in sin. Faith, I know, is necessary, and the enemy has penetrated almost everywhere and especially in religious circles so as to confuse people and make them doubt. So, while we, myself included, remain in doubt of God and do not search for his answers, we may make bad choices, including homosexual relationships, but many other things.
Still, everyone has a right to his beliefs, but I argue this based upon my beliefs, and for the root of the Christian religion, which comes with healing, visions, the Holy Spirit, and is not just words and judgement.
1.No way to tell if you're lying
2. No way to tell if this was God, or just a dream.
3. Have you ever considered that satan was entering YOUR mind, not mine and many of the people in America?
I'm actually a Christian. But the fact of the matter is, the Christians who believe gay marriage should be legal outweigh the Christians who don't. So the question is: If what I wrote was true, (And it was) then does that mean that satan can overpower God? It seems like God wouldn't be allowing most of the True Religion be corrupted by the dark force. If satan can overpower God, then we're screwed right??
One of the comments asked a couple questions: What if all if the world was gay?
Answer: Well, that wouldn't happen. Even if it did, preventing them from marrying each other wouldn't change the fact that they're gay.
The guy talked about how mothers give helpful insight.
My response: Gay couples are supposed to choose a motherly person and a fatherly person. This is how it will be prevented. Also, they would have been even more messed up if they stayed in that horrible orphanage. Their are some advantages to. Gay couples are also able to connect with females better sometimes, so it might not be bad if one boy learned how to talk to girls, would it?
Marrage is with a relationship with a man and a women, it says so in the dictionary.
Well sir, this argument is to change the dictionary and laws to allow gay couples to marry.
Another person said that marriage is not a right, but a privilege.
I disagree. Simple as that. How can I take away your right to marry.
I ask all of the above questions to Con, (I'm so sorry, I know their are ALOT of questions) and conclude on saying that gays are people to.
You said, "But the fact of the matter is, the Christians who believe gay marriage should be legal outweigh the Christians who don't. So the question is: If what I wrote was true, (And it was) then does that mean that satan can overpower God? It seems like God wouldn't be allowing most of the True Religion be corrupted by the dark force. If satan can overpower God, then we're screwed right??"
Our country I believe was founded on God's principles. However, when the whole period of slavery was happening, can we say that a mostly Christian country was okay with it, or in your words that we are using for the gay marriage debate, that the Christians who believe it should be legal outweigh the Christians who don't, then it was part of God's vision? To this I would say that there was an element of the enemy's influence that infiltrated the country and those who were of God.
Also, I very strongly believe there are shades of Christianity in this country with some closer to God then others. The founder of Christianity was a man who fasted for 40 days and did supernatural miracles. His closest disciples were those who also did miracles and were moved by the spirit and travelled. Today there are many who are born into the Christian faith, but few who actively engage it as it was in the beginning engaged.
So when you argued, " It seems like God wouldn't be allowing most of the True Religion be corrupted by the dark force. ", I believe that if we are not able to keep the passion and love that were evident in the early days, then this religion, no matter how true it was in the beginning, will be open to corruption.
I would also like to respond to the question you raised, "If satan can overpower God, then we're screwed right??" because this question made me think and it seemed too large to answer.
I believe there are many issues that Satan (and his fallen angels) have gotten their influence into to confuse. Medicine for instance- where we are giving strange drugs instead of addressing root causes. Evolution- where some are arguing that human beings are in some ways like monkeys, when there is in fact a supernatural spark inside the human creation that is unlike the animal kingdom. Also, the government right now, which is in the middle of a shutdown, must in some way be influenced by the enemy, where there is a lack of compromise. Politics, however, I believe to be not my area of understanding. Also the issue of abortion.
I believe this for myself and others, that if God gives us clarity and insight and we act upon it then it will open ways for us to defeat the fallen angels and the one who led them. In the bible it says that Jesus defeated the enemy. There was a point in time before the ministry of Jesus Christ began where he was fasting for forty days and nights, and the enemy actually came up to him with arguments. I don't have this memorized so I am going online to quote the specifics, and here they are:
Argument 1: If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread. Argument 2, I will give you all [the kindgom's of the world] authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. Argument 3: If you are the Son of God throw yourself down from here (the highest point of the temple], for it is written he will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully.
I believe that here Satan was giving three lies to Jesus and Jesus answered him: 1) Man does not live on bread alone. 2: It is written, worship the Lord your God and serve him only. And 3) It says, do not put the Lord your God to the test.
So I believe that Jesus used the words of God to defeat the enemy, because the enemy wanted him to take some lies and act upon them, but Jesus did not. For instance, Jesus had the power to turn the stones into bread, as he later would turn 5 loaves of bread into enough to feed multitudes. However, in this instance he did not. He instead answered and spoke a truth, that man lives on what is given to him by God (spiritual food), and not only bread alone.
In argument three he could have acted on what Satan said and since he was the Son of God the angels would protect him if he jumped from the high point. But he did not- and answered that we should not put the Lord our God to the test.
I believe Satan wanted to corrupt the power that Jesus had been given from heaven, but Jesus, recognizing the evil intentions did not entertain the enemy.
Likewise, I believe that the enemy is still at work, by wanting us to take on lies and act on them.
And one of those lies, as I believe from my own faculties is the push for equalizing homosexual marriage as nothing different than marriage between a man and women.
Which I hope will bring me to answer what you said in your opening argument:
" And maybe you did have visions! But
1.No way to tell if you're lying
2. No way to tell if this was God, or just a dream.
3. Have you ever considered that satan was entering YOUR mind, not mine and many of the people in America?"
I know not how to explain the dreams and insights I believe come from God except to say that sometimes when I have taken action in the world or done something for God with a pure heart then it feels as if my heart rate becomes more intense and maybe even accelerates before I sleep and that when I dream I enter purer realms were there are some aspects of revelation, and other visions, that I try to write down. And I believe that action, and prayer as well, were the catalyst that allow these doors to be opened so I can see more clearly and perceive in my dreams.
I believe this would work for everyone, as I believe that when sin is removed from our world it opens the doors for the kingdom of heaven. For instance, if you take a strong stand for something you believe that is in God's will or agenda, I wonder if you could experience this in some way that is individual to you, as I believe strongly in God communicating in different ways to everyone based upon the unique ways we are created.
So when you ask me if I am possessed or if Satan has entered my mind, I answer you that I believe in a supernatural God and believe in acting or expressing that which I believe was shown to me. I hope to do so not only with this small issue, but with others as well.
There are many reasons I could take the side which is for gay marriage. One is that I am very strongly against discrimination, and it hurts me to see how our society has bullied and harassed others, and especially those who are gay. Another reason is that some of my friends are gay and I desire to accept my friends.
I believe, however, that if I went somewhere and argued passionately in defense of gay marriage motivated by those two reasons, I believe that still it would not be in alignment with God's will, and I believe it would open the door for the enemy to trap my soul in some way.
1. Your gay friends are possessed! Shouldn't we go help them?! You clearly need to call a priest over to help them, and get the "Dark Angles" out of them, right???
2. Clearly, if one person claims that most of America is possessed because he "Dreamed of it" means that all of us are possessed. I mean, you even said that you enter a purer realm when you sleep! And I mean, who else feels very comfortable and calm when they sleep? Hmmm...
3. Well, now that this guy in the internet says I'm possessed, my family's possessed, my entire church is possessed, every Christian in my city are possessed and is not as close to God as he is, then I guess he's right. Their's no possible way he could be wrong. Nope.
Answer those please.
And also, I'll just say this: I'm a Christian, I pray, I'm almost an Eagle Scout, on a student council for our school, volunteer at least a month, (yes a full month, I go to a summer camp and volunteer during my summer) a year , was able to go to a leadership awards thing called "We day" look it up if u want to, I was offered to go, but I decided that I'd be nice and let someone else go who wanted it more, volunteers at an old folks home every year, raised money for children in Haitie, helped build a church, etc... Isn't as close to god as you are and is possessed. because all of these are such evil deeds, right? Clearly, it's the work of the devil.
Sorry, I do not have too much time to write, so this answer will be brief, and might not flow as well. P
First to debate your points.
1. "1. Your gay friends are possessed! Shouldn't we go help them?! You clearly need to call a priest over to help them, and get the "Dark Angles" out of them, right???"
One, I believe it takes a heavy anointing to pray for someone to break something like that. I will definitely try to pray for them if I feel I am being led to, and I do hope that there is something that can be done to get the truth out, and this is what I am trying to do, which is take a stand against the whole thing that this is acceptable.
For your third point, "3. Well, now that this guy in the internet says I'm possessed, my family's possessed, my entire church is possessed, every Christian in my city are possessed and is not as close to God as he is, then I guess he's right. Their's no possible way he could be wrong. Nope.
Answer those please."
In my heart I do believe that there are people on this planet who are very close to God, and I believe the early Christians were. Truly one cannot know who some of these people are, but there are those whose prayers and presence scared away demons. There are those who are speak the truth, and who dedicate their lives to it. I believe that speaking the truth regardless of popular opinion, will increase the anointing of God upon our lives.
I believe that there are many truths in this world that could be told that we are not yet able to handle, but I believe it important for anyone who believes they are speaking God's truth to know that they will be attacked, because the enemy would like to take down the person who spoke the truth, so that it will make the truth go away as well, discrediting the person and discrediting the truth and leaving the world in ignorance, where the truth if followed would benefit other.
To answer your final point:
"Isn't as close to god as you are and is possessed. because all of these are such evil deeds, right? Clearly, it's the work of the devil."
I think you are much younger than I am, and I can say that at your age I was not outspoken about any issues. Nevertheless, this what I believe at this moment, and believe strongly that the enemy (and those who fell with him) are pushing for the perception of equalizing the homosexual status, and they are strongly pushing for it at this time. It is my belief that I am not attacking any individual and want nothing but the best for everyone, and want only to expose this for what I believe it is.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bsh1 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: As much as it pains me--as someone who is gay--to do so, I must vote Con in this debate. His technical argumentation was better. While I utterly disagree with him and find his stance repulsive, Pro failed to develop and advance any cogent line of thought. Simply asking questions of Con is insufficient to win. Thus, arguments go Con, and I am really torn with that. Though, if Con would like to have this debate again, I would be more than willing to debate it with him.
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