The Instigator
19acolvin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Dennybug
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

gay scout participants

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Dennybug
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 724 times Debate No: 49727
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

19acolvin

Pro

Homosexuals should be allowed to participate in whatever organization they wish to be in. Who the hell are you to tell someone they can't join your club because of their sexual preferences? Quit judging people and let them participate. The boy scouts are setting a very bad example for the children. No one has the right to discriminate against homosexuals. Homosexuals are people too, except it and grow up.
Dennybug

Con

I would like to edify Pro on this topic, and his resolution. Before stating my own resolution.


Clarifications


Pro has stated the following:

Homosexuals should be allowed to participate in whatever organization they wish to be in.

He is of course referring to the Boy Scouts of America organization. Implying that Homosexuals are either: A) Not allowed to Join Scouts. - or B) At one point not allowed to join Scouts.

This is however not the case, nor has it ever been acording to the definition of Homosexual:

noun
A person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pro's topic is a fallacy. he is completely misunderstood. In May 13/2013 BSA approved a policy in which openly gay scouts would be allowed to participate and openly admit to being homosexual.

Furthermore, prior to that. Homosexual scouts could still join. They simply could not discuss their homosexuality. Homosexuality simply refers to sexual attraction between the same sex.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So for the purpose of this debate I will assume that Pro is arguing that in a hypothetical situation in which there is still a policy which bans openly gay scouts from joining: Homosexuals should be allowed to participate in whatever organization they wish to be in.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rebuttals


So far, Pro has poorly presented an argument which is simply his opinion, he stated the following:

Homosexuals should be allowed to participate in whatever organization they wish to be in.

He has not presented any evidence or reasoning as to why openly Homosexual scouts should be allowed to join BSA.

-Including in Pro's statement about Homosexual Scouts he writes the following:

The boy scouts are setting a very bad example for the children.

This has also not been backed up with any reasoning or evidence. I ask that Pro would further elaborate on this statement before I can take it as a serious argument and refute it.


=================================================================


Arguments:

In this section I will be arguing that: Openly Homosexual Scouts Should Not Be Allowed to Participate in BSA.


Boy Scouts is not about sexuality

Avowed Sexuality of any sort should not be tolerated in BSA, whether Gay, Bi or Straight. I say this because in Scouting the young men who participate are not taught which sex to love. They are taught how to be a:

-Friendly
-Courteous
-Kind
-Obedient
-Cheerful
-Thrifty
-Brave
-Clean
-Reverant

Individual, the program has many lessons in it and non of which have anything to do with sexuality. I think that Gay Rights activists have manipulated the public into believing that Gay Scouts are being oppressed when this is not the case.
This is why I believe that Avowed Sexuality of any sort should not be tolerated in Boy Scouts.


=======================================================================

Conclusion:

I have clarified Pro's topic, and presented an argument which supports my resolution which is to be refuted by Pro in the next round.

I ask that Pro would present an argument and his reasoning behind it.



----------

I look forward to Pro's response as this topic is one that is close to my heart. I believe that many people are looking at it from the wrong perspective.







Sources:

http://edition.cnn.com...
http://dictionary.reference.com...
http://www.scouting.org...
Debate Round No. 1
19acolvin

Pro

If they want to continue to get government support then they must be open to all boys, gay, atheists, etc. If they do not open up to everyone then they should stop getting government support. BTW, homosexuals are now accepted as scouts (not scoutmasters), but atheists are not yet allowed.

Who cares if its messed up Why would you even want to be part of it if it does not accept gays? Imagine you have a PRIVATE club you made, one were you can feel amoungst like minded people, then someone comes along and forced you to let people into your PRIVATE club. Its not like its members make money, its just for fun really.
Dennybug

Con

Notes - Con has failed to refute my point from the previous round:

-Scouts isnt about sexuality.(Homo or Hetero)



======================================================

Rebuttals -

#1

If they want to continue to get government support then they must be open to all boys, gay, atheists, etc. If they do not open up to everyone then they should stop getting government support. BTW, homosexuals are now accepted as scouts (not scoutmasters), but atheists are not yet allowed.

I don't see how government funding is relevant to the debate. Pro is simply stating his predictions about what will happen if Gay Scouts/Scoutmasters are not allowed to participate.

The funding of boy scouts has nothing to do with why gay scouts should have the right to join.


#2

Who cares if its messed up Why would you even want to be part of it if it does not accept gays? Imagine you have a PRIVATE club you made, one were you can feel amoungst like minded people, then someone comes along and forced you to let people into your PRIVATE club. Its not like its members make money, its just for fun really.


Pro has made an argument against why gays shouldn't join. And refuted it by saying who cares? it's just for fun.

-BSA is a non-profit organization. Run by mostly graduated scouts and scout parents. They are the ones being forced to let Gay scouts join because of public and government pressure. They should have the right to choose who is allowed to join BSA because they are the ones spending their time organizing everything.

#3

Pro is biased against Scoutmasters stating that they should not join.

gayscoutcomment


In the last sentence Pro states that -

There is a big difference between a gay scout being allowed in boy scouts and a gay leader in scouts. Gay leaders not to be jugging but a gay leader is more likely to be sexually active with other male participant.

I would like for Pro to elaborate on this. Personally I think gay leaders would be more suited to join scouting since they would be more sexually mature and LESS likely to engage in sexual activity.


================================================


Arguments

#1 - Gay scouts will be encouraged to engage in sexual activity

This is another problem with avowed homosexuals in scouting. They will want to connect with other gay scouts and possibly might lead to sexual activity on camping trips. When you allow openly gay scouts into BSA they will think that sexuality has been interjected into scouting, thus be encouraged to experiment with other scouts.

Vs. when you have 50 boys, and sexuality is not discussed amongst them, the possibility of young scouts engaging in sexual activity will decrease significantly.


=============================================

Conclusion-

I have refuted everything stated by pro, and added an argument of my own.

I have now two arguments which have not yet been addressed by pro

-Scouting isnt about Sexuality
-Avowed Homosexuality in Scouting promotes Sexual behavior.

-------------------------------------



===================================================================

Sources:

http://secular.org...
http://www.traillifeusa.com...

Debate Round No. 2
19acolvin

Pro

Who cares if its messed up Why would you even want to be part of it if it does not accept gays? Imagine you have a PRIVATE club you made, one were you can feel amoungst like minded people, then someone comes along and forced you to let people into your PRIVATE club. Its not like its members make money, its just for fun really.
Dennybug

Con

Pro has copied and pasted on of his previous arguments which I have already refuted, due to this I will not be addressing it because it seems as it was done out of laziness.



Conclusion -

I have presented 2 arguments for why The Gay Policy should be re-implemented and Pro has failed to address them in any sort of way.

I have refuted all of pros arguments, non of which have been counter refuted. Leading me to believe he has conceded to my perspective.



My arguments were as follows

-Boy scouting is not about sexuality of any sort.
- Gay scouts will be encouraged to engage in sexual activity.



Thank you
-Dennis
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Dennybug 3 years ago
Dennybug
@Defro,

adjective
1.
concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

You should re-evaluate your definition of morals. A homosexual man can be just as morally straight as a heterosexual man. At the end of the day morals dont come down to what you prefer to stick it in.

An example would be having pre-marital sex and going out and drinking. These are things which lower your morale.

===============================

Also Mr. Snyder is imposing the rule because of the Gay rights policy. It encourages homosexual scouts to be open about their sexuality because apparently it matters so much in scouting. This is what I am arguing against.

Before Avowed Homosexuality was banned, sleeping in the same tents was not a problem at all.
Posted by Defro 3 years ago
Defro
@Dennybug

You of all people should know that they do teach about sexuality in scouts.
Recall our beloved Scout Oath we had to recite every Scout meeting:

Keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and MORALLY STRAIGHT. MORALLY STRAIGHT!

Besides, Mr. Snider seems to be subtly teaching us how to have proper sexuality by enforcing that stupid one scout per tent rule.
Posted by Dennybug 3 years ago
Dennybug
@bubba,

exactly.
Posted by bubbatheclown 3 years ago
bubbatheclown
Objection: Gay boy scouts were never banned from joining the organization. OPENLY gay boy scouts were banned from joining the organization.
Posted by CJKAllstar 3 years ago
CJKAllstar
Homosexual simply refers to attraction. The_Serb, nothing is stopping a heterosexual child from forcing sex upon your child. The only difference is one might be attracted to him, but either way, placing your child in a tent with anyone can lead to unforeseen sexual circumstances.
Posted by The_Serb 3 years ago
The_Serb
I sure wouldn't allow my boy to sleep in the same tent as a homosexual
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Relativist 3 years ago
Relativist
19acolvinDennybugTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct point for clarification. Con had to draw out possible intrepretations on Pro's case, thus making the debate easier to follow , If he didn't it would have been difficult. Con even had presented his rebuttals on R1 on multiple intrepretations. This along with the apparent copy and paste rant of pro as well as ignoring Con's contentions, Con gets conduct beyond reasonable doubt. Pro essentially makes opiniated arguments of 'who cares,its their right' sort of mentality while Con's arguments touched on the organisation rights, how government funding is irrelevant as well as expected behaviours in the club. His arguments are more sound as he provided that in these clubs, homosexuality was not the main goal but friendly traits in general.