The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points
The Contender
Kasrahalteth
Con (against)
Winning
53 Points

george w. bush is the president of the united states

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,772 times Debate No: 1065
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (23)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

assuming we can know reality. and assuming what we're told is true.

it seems there's a dissenter for every topic. lets see if we can find one here.
Kasrahalteth

Con

Okay, I can't resist. This debate ought to be hilarious.

First of all, there are 509 people in America alone named George Bush. They can't all be president. Therefore although George Bush may be the president there is only a 0.2% chance that he actually is.

Therefore the overwhelming majority of George Bushes are not the president.

And when you consider that George Bush wasn't voted into office, the statistics get even tougher. The George Bush that was elected into office didn't win the popular vote. Al Gore did. Not that the popular vote generally matters, but it's worth mentioning that the majority of the country did not vote for George Bush.

George Bush also would not have won the electoral vote if it were not for the recounts in Florida, and of course a good amount of controversy surrounds this, because his brother was the governor of Florida and it came to light afterwards that entire communities of voters that traditionally voted for democrats were locked out on voting day. So you can definitely make the argument that George Bush is not president. Al Gore is.

And if you want to argue that he was legally elected the second time, I have to say that he already cheated in a presidential election and therefore has committed treason and therefore should be in prison.

Look at all the time he's been spending on that ranch of his. Do we really know he's there? I think he's secretly on the run from the government, always fleeing the White House when they take enough time off of investigating the lack of WMDs in Iraq to try to capture him again.

Maybe that's why he has that ranch. It's huge. I bet the other 508 George Bushes are there, ready to scatter all over the country to throw off the groups investigating the one illegally in office.

Okay. Obviously I'm kidding with part of this. My next argument will get a bit more serious.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Kasrahalteth

Con

Whee. No response. Oh well, I owe it to myself to continue if nothing else. So I've had my fun and I'll now fully elaborate on my argument.

So anyhow. Bush is not the president of the United States because he was elected under false premises. He wasn't actually elected at all, and only won through corrupt government in Florida, a biased Supreme Court and FOX news. And if he wasn't legally elected the first time, the fact that he was reelected is somewhat of a moot point. He already broke the law and should be removed from office.

So, let's elaborate on my three reasons, shall we?

More than 80% of African-Americans in the US are democrats. In predominantly black communities in Florida, polls were often closed early or were too small to accommodate voters. The counting machines used in those polls were very old, and tossed thousands of votes away uncounted. These counting machines were used almost exclusively in black communities. Blanket letters were sent to people living in Florida telling them that they lost the ability to vote for committing any crimes in the past. This holds true for ex-felons, but it lead some citizens to believe that they couldn't vote because of something as simple as a traffic violation. Florida state troopers actually put a road block in front of one polling station.

Obviously, since thousands of votes were literally thrown away and Bush only won by 537 votes, Al Gore could easily have won if those votes were actually counted. Especially when you consider that 80% of those missing votes were probably for Al Gore.

Of course, there was the whole matter of the ballots as well, which proved confusing to many voters. Many believed they were voting for Al Gore when they were really punching the card for an obscure independent-party candidate. But if we give the everyone the benefit of a doubt in this case, and assume that the ballots weren't intentionally confusing (though they almost certainly were), there's still the problem with not counting the votes the old counting machines lost.

The recounts in Florida were stopped by the Supreme Court with a 5-4 victory. One of the judges was appointed by George H. Bush. The judge's son was a part of the legal firm representing George W. Bush. There's going to be a good amount of bias there, obviously. That judge had a vested interest in George Bush winning the election. If that judge had been someone else, the recounts may have continued. And if they counted the votes discarded by counting machines, Al Gore would have won.

And this may be my favorite example, because it can show you how much effect a news channel can have on people's perceptions. FOX news was the first to report that Bush had won the election, even at a point where it would have been impossible to know. They went to court and apologized for this afterward, but naturally the damage was already done. To keep up with FOX, other news channels also began to report that Bush had won the election. To keep up with those channels, other channels also began to report that Bush won. FOX actually started a chain reaction that tipped general opinion in favor of Bush and as a result, changed the outcome of the proceedings afterwards.

And for good measure, the governor of Florida was Bush's brother, and the person in charge of certifying the winner of the Florida vote was also his party's campaign co-chair. If there's not any corruption there, I'd be amazed.

Please respond. Debating by myself is pretty boring.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Kasrahalteth

Con

This could have been a really interesting debate if you actually responded. Oh well. Since none of my arguments were refuted, I don't have much else to say. I guess I'll summarize.

George Bush is not the president of the United States because:
1) Thousands of votes that were probably for Al Gore were thrown away. Bush only won Florida by 537 votes.
2) Ballots were confusing.
3) Recounts were stopped. The tiebreaking vote was cast by a Supreme Court justice with a vested interest in Bush winning the election.
4) FOX news.
5) This all renders his reelection moot.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Korezaan 6 years ago
Korezaan
OWNT.

This comment is now over 25 characters.
Posted by audraxheartsxyou 6 years ago
audraxheartsxyou
i like george bush as president. but it is true that there is more than one george bush.
Posted by Kasrahalteth 6 years ago
Kasrahalteth
Well, obviously it's going to be a stretch. I'm debating a point that's pretty universally accepted as false. The fun's in trying to back it up.
Posted by Evan_MacIan 6 years ago
Evan_MacIan
It's a sound arguement for saying that Bush should not have won, but when you have the Supreme Court against you, I just think it's stretching it to say that the win was illegal.
Posted by Kasrahalteth 6 years ago
Kasrahalteth
Last time I checked, the Supreme Court didn't have the authority to override a legal vote.

I threw in the 506 George Bushes thing as a joke. I'd hardly call it brilliant.

And I won't deny that I am whiny, but I have to say that (at least in my opinion) my argument is relatively sound. But thanks for the constructive criticism.
Posted by Kasrahalteth 6 years ago
Kasrahalteth
Uh... what on earth are you talking about!?

Bush won by 537 votes in Florida. Gore would have gotten thousands more votes if they were counted properly. Therefore Gore would have beaten Bush in Florida, and by doing so would have gained Florida's electoral votes, thusly winning the presidential election.

Y'know how the electoral college works, right? If the majority of people's votes in a state go towards one candidate, then all of the state's electoral college votes go towards that candidate. So you're suggesting that the people's votes can be totally disregarded and that state delegates can ignore the laws and just pick who they personally want to vote for.
Posted by Evan_MacIan 6 years ago
Evan_MacIan
Legality is not determined by what is right much of the time. Even if Al Gore SHOULD have been the president, the Supreme Court (in this instance) had the legal authority to decide. Bush is the legal president. Whoever wants to appeal this can try, but the final authority in the appeal would be the Supreme Court.

I begrudgingly vote con, because the 506 George Bush's was brilliant, even if the rest was whiny crap. (to be clear, I think Bush is an idiot of a president, but he's a LEGAL idiot of a President.)
Posted by C-Mach 6 years ago
C-Mach
We know George Walker Bush didn't win the popular vote, but you're forgetting one thing: The Electoral College. The president doesn't win by popular vote. Delegates attend the Electoral College that represent the people who voted for that candidate, and it is highly unlikely but possible for a person who didn't win the popular vote to be put in office WITHOUT dirty tricks. I rest my case.
Posted by beem0r 6 years ago
beem0r
There aren't that many George W bush's though.
Posted by TeaandScarves 6 years ago
TeaandScarves
I love the 506 people with the name George Bush arguement. I would have never thought of that.
23 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 21 through 23 records.
Vote Placed by Twan 6 years ago
Twan
dairygirl4u2cKasrahaltethTied
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Vote Placed by cody30228 6 years ago
cody30228
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Vote Placed by Farooq 6 years ago
Farooq
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