The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
logicinlife
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

god can not create life, only the dead

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
logicinlife
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 572 times Debate No: 71672
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

vi_spex

Pro

god can not create life because anything that is constructed or created is a machine, and nature is life, my body is nature

destruction=turn my back
logicinlife

Con

Hello everyone!

Pro will be debating that "god can not create life because anything that is constructed or created is a machine, and nature is life, my body is nature."

Pro - "God can NOT create life"
Con - "God Can create life"


Pro's logic is as follows:

The Human body = Nature = Life

Constructed or created = a machine

Therefore God can only create machines and not life.

Pro did not provide definitions....so I will.


Create:

"verb (used with object), created, creating.
1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art oran invention.
3. Theater. to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first productionof a play.
4. to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute;appoint: to create a peer.
5. to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.
6.to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design: to create a revolution; to create an opportunity to ask for a raise." (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Construct:

"verb (used with object)
1. to build or form by putting together parts; frame; devise.
2. Geometry. to draw (a figure) fulfilling certain given conditions.
noun
3. something constructed.
4. an image, idea, or theory, especially a complex one formed from anumber of simpler elements." (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Life:

"noun, plural lives [lahyvz] (Show IPA)
1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects anddead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism,reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment throughchanges originating internally.
2. the sum of the distinguishing phenomena of organisms, especially metabolism, growth, reproduction, and adaptation to environment.
3. the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual: to risk one's life; a short life and a merry one.
4. a corresponding state, existence, or principle of existence conceived of as belonging to the soul: eternal life.
5. the general or universal condition of human existence:Too bad, but life is like that." (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Nature:

"noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, orrivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.
6. the sum total of the forces at work throughout the universe.
7. reality, as distinguished from any effect of art:
a portrait true to nature." (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

(Christian) God:

"The concept of God as described by theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence." (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

Also Note that "Made" is a synonym for "create" here: (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)


Given that Pro charges God with not being able to do something, I will presume that Pro believes God exists.

I will also assume the bible as a valid source for this debate since God exists and since I have defined God as the Christian God.


Pro's Statement:

"god can not create life because anything that is constructed or created is a machine, and nature is life, my body is nature."

Rebuttals:

1. One of God's attributes alone refutes Pro's claim - omnipotence - God CAN do anything
2. God provided and put together parts (in accordance to construct's definition #1) in constructing life (in accordance to definition #1 life). Such as creating enviornments for life.
3. God created (in accordance to the definition of create #1) by speaking the universe (nature by all its definitions provided) into existence (ex: Genesis 1:3, 1:6, 1:9 and so on) and speaking life and nature into existence (in accordance to definition #1 of life) in Genesis 1:11, "Let the land produce vegetation"
4. God created (in accordance to definition of #6 of create) everything as I demonstrated in point 3, which includes life.
5. God constructed (in accordance to the definition of construct #1,3,4) man, which is life (by definition of #1) and according to Pro. Genesis 2:7
7. Assuming God as creator of the universe also means that God created life indirectly through human reproduction and/or evolution. (depending on your view of evolution)
8. Assuming God as creator, human beings and life forms exist, therefore God created life.
9. Humans can create life now thanks to science in unusual ways, thus if mere humans can do so, than so can God who by definition is all powerful, all knowledgeable and so on.
10. God in the New Testament uses His Spirit to bring Christ (a living human being) into the World.
11. God saves us from death through the Cross (New Testament) therefore creating (by definition #1 of create) eternal life (by definition #4)
12. God created the Heavens and the Earth, Genesis 1:1, thus creating both life and eternal life.


Bonus biblical Rebuttals:

1. "This is what God the LORD says-- the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it:"- Isaiah 42:5
2. All of Genesis 1
3.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” - John 1:1-3, Including life
4. Colossians 1:16 - "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."


Here are more: (http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com...)


Now, because this is Pro's claim he must prove his resolution that "god can not create life, only the dead."


Your Move, Pro!


Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

machine and supernature is the opposite of nature, anything that physically exist is either natural or mechanical, and supernature is false by default, imaginary

anything that comes first is nature

life=(is)sensory experience, as im dead without my senses=know=nature=true=matter

if any knowledge exist about god, god is necessarily true, god is believed not rememered, and not sensed

god exist, lies exist

hmm god cant intend randomness, as whatever god intends is specified, not random, god can only create machines

creation dosnt happen in reality
logicinlife

Con

Pro has failed to refute any of my arguments and has not provided evidence that God cannot create life. For future rounds I ask that Pro articulate and explain his case more efficiently. While I am tired, I found his arguments quite incoherent, with no offense intended.

"machine and supernature is the opposite of nature, anything that physically exist is either natural or mechanical, and supernature is false by default, imaginary" - Pro merely believes that supernature is false by default, without actually proving it. In making his argument in round one, Pro presumed that God exists by stating that God cannot do something.

Pro also makes a FALSE claim that the supernatural is the opposite of nature when supernatural is:
"1 of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)" (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)

The supernatural transcends nature, it is not opposite of nature.

Interestingly enough, the 2nd definition of Machine is: "a living organism or one of its functional systems" (http://www.merriam-webster.com...) (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Contrary to Pro's claims, a Machine is not the opposite of nature, it is merely a product of nature when either created by humans or a human life itself which consists of several parts, "an apparatus consisting of interrelated parts with separate functions,used in the performance of some kind of work:" Does this definition exclude the human body?

"anything that comes first is nature" - According to my argument in round one, which has yet to be refuted, God is the source of life. Also; by definition, again, the supernatural transcends the natural and you have yet to prove the supernatural doesn't exist. You merely claim it to be so.


"if any knowledge exist about god, god is necessarily true, god is believed not remembered, and not sensed" - Pro fails to demonstrate how God is not sensed, I and many other Christians claim the sensing of God's presence.


"hmm god cant intend randomness, as whatever god intends is specified, not random, god can only create machines" - Machines can also be a human being regardless of whatever it is you are trying to say here. My wife and I created a baby, which we intended, which isn't random, which is a human LIFE. Humans can do it, the God who created Humans cannot?

"creation doesn't happen in reality" - Yet, here we are talking...

Pro has failed to refute any points, and has actually refuted himself by ushering in my definition of Machine. Pro has also, many claims to support, let the viewer take note.

Recap:

Pro's initial resolution: "god can not create life because anything that is constructed or created is a machine and nature is life, my body is nature"

Two definitions of Machine from two different sources that indicate that a human is a machine:
"an apparatus consisting of interrelated parts with separate functions,used in the performance of some kind of work:"
"a living organism or one of its functional systems"

Disproving Pro by his own resolution:

Where I live it is 4:00 AM and so hopefully this is clear enough for the readers:

Pro's body = an apparatus consisting of interrelated parts with separate functions, used in the performance of some kind of work/a living organism or one of its functional systems = a machine = nature = life = CAN be created by God

God can create life because anything that is constructed or created is a machine, and a machine is my body, and my body is a nature, and nature is life.

Not only has Pro failed to refute my arguments, but he has refuted his own resolution.

Vote Con!





Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

anything that is created or constructed is a machine.. this simply proves it

i have no beliefs, supernature exceeds nature so its never true, if superman was real he would be natural not supernatural

god exist, lies exist

supernature is false, and nature is true, opposites

machines requires intent

supernature exist, false exist, there can be no false without true and no true without false

if you sense god you can show it.. god is imaginary

human being is nature, life is nature

a human being can be mechanical, like you can train a bear to dance

live=dead

nature is random, machine can not exist without randomness, as machine is specified, not random
logicinlife

Con

Extend all arguments, Pro has failed to refute any of my claims. Saying and wishing something to be true does not make it so. By the actual definition of machine, Pro refutes himself.

Pro has yet to demonstrate any evidence for his claims.

Vote con.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

no machines exist that are not intended..

machine=match IN energy
technology=taking the knowledge i put out
logicinlife

Con

Pro fails to make his argument sound, changing definitions that have been established should be noted by the viewers. Pro fails again to support his claims and appeals to only changing definitions in the final round. Pro also fails to show evidence that his definitions are even correct.

I extend my arguments, vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

it is as simple as that.. 1+1=2
logicinlife

Con

Pro fails again to make some sort of coherent case. Extend arguments.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
if a computer can learn from its errors then it is intelligent
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
creation dosnt happen in reality
Posted by Hello1647583 2 years ago
Hello1647583
(vi_spex)
Machines are programmed to do what the creator of Machines are programmed to do.
Anamatronic is the name of my science project robot I made in school 6 years ago and I
have been playing with it ever since.
Posted by logicinlife 2 years ago
logicinlife
I apologize for grammarical errors and spelling errors. I will now be going to bed....as I should have hours ago.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
vi_spexlogicinlifeTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: pro proving once again his own stupidity and that he cannot debate to save his life