The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
wmickas
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

god is not "one" therefore god is a fraud

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
wmickas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/30/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 934 times Debate No: 104226
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (27)
Votes (2)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
Who is this "us" and "our"? Us and our states that there is more than one god. Its not singular folks and does not leave any room for the imaginationation to roam.

Psalms 82:1 "(A Psalm of Asaph.) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."
Well that one is pretty clear. Plural people. So there is more than one god. Duh.

Here"s one that may be stretching it and it all depends on your scope of things and if you are smart enough you don"t believe in neither" Many believe that the son of god, jesus, is a god, thus that"s TWO gods!

Then god has to be a buzzkill "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" "gods" again, plural. Strange isn"t it that this almighty god would create other gods for others to worship. And yet this god of the bible gets jealous? Well the idiot names himself "jealous". Go figure. EX 34:14

So if you believe in god ehhhhtttt bbzzzzttttt wrong answer. Your entire religion has just been twarted and debunked!!!

So your job for this debate is to prove that your god somehow is worthy of cause and has meaning and you can actually prove that this god of yours exists.

https://www.youtube.com... - Gods of the bible

RULES FOR THIS EXQUISITE DEBATE:
Absolutely no idiots will be accepted as contestants for this debate who obviously don"t know what they are squawking about who have to thus invent excuses and flat out lie in order to gain grounding points which would be accepted as negative absolute zero. That would mean that I can target you for some cheap shot insults in which you would rightly deserve. Got it?

Absolutely no creationists will be accepted for this rambunctious debate. Why? ALL CREATIONISTS, no exceptions, none, are completely and totally worthless. They cannot even stand by their product when it comes to testing it. Because if they could, then they would put their god on trial again. So why haven"t they? Its because they are not stupid. They 100% know that they will flat out fail. That"s because all they have to go on is faith and faith cannot be proved.
wmickas

Con

My last "debate" with my opponent backwardseden was disappointing but I'll give him another chance to engage in a debate with substance. I found this topic interesting because it is one of the most misunderstood things in Christian theology. As a Christian that defends the doctrine of the trinity against Muslims and other Unitarians, the Genesis passages would be good passages to bring up to them.

My job for this debate is to defend the God of the Bible against the claim above. "god is not 'one' therefore god is a fraud". My opponent's job is to defend his claim. This debate is not over any other topics of Christianity and not about God's existence.

backwardseden's opening statement does not mention the trinity, so he is either ignorant of this doctrine (I highly doubt since by his admission he has been interacting with Christians and probably has been corrected many times), he is trying his best to cheap shot Christianity, or he simply forgot.

Deuteronomy 6:4 ( the great shema) says "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" lets look at the Hebrew at this passage, (shema yisrael adonai eloheinu adonai echad) The word echad here is very important echad is oneness in unity not oneness in number, that would be yachid. For more information, go to http://www.bible.ca...

The fact that the Bible mentions another "god" besides Jehovah does not mean that it mentions the father, son and holy spirit. The Bible also interacts with the pagans at the time and refutes their conceptions of god.

Back to the trinity: What is the trinity? The Athanasian Creed states,
"That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity."

Dr. James White simplifies this doctrine "Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." (The Forgotten Trinity)

This doctrine has been been debated for years before the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. with Modalism (God reveals himself in 3 different modes) and Arianism (The Father created the son and spirit) Both of these doctrines have been condemned as heresies.

There have been analogies to try to describe the trinity, but these analogies have limits and sometimes commit the above mentioned heresies.
-Water: liquid, ice and vapor
-Sun: star, light and heat
-Human: body, soul and spirit
-Three leaf clover: three leaves on one stem
-Universe: time, space and matter
-Banach-Tarski Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org...

I already know that my opponent will attempt to insult me and call me all kinds of names topped off with questionable literacy. I will attempt to keep my sarcasm to a minimum although it might come out from time to time.

I pray this debate will be edifying for believers and nonbelievers alike. I give my opponent the chance to respond.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

My job for this debate is to defend the God of the Bible against the claim above. "god is not 'one' therefore god is a fraud". My opponent's job is to defend his claim.


I really hate it when christians like you think that they have all the answers to nothing when in fact they know the answers to nothing and as as brainless as yodeling cabbage. I did that in round one unless you want to go back and go through what I have previously posted and take it in AS EVIDENCE rather than acting as a typical smug smarta$$ christian that you knowingly are and with utter desperation because you 100% know that you’ve lost, you tried to change the subject, as only the typical christian understudy would do, or run away. .

Oh and oh yeah. That stupid “trinity” thing. Dump it. Its completely useless. What moron uses it? Look at other debates here on debate.org for proof imbecile.

Oh and oh yeah watch the fricken video which takes down EVERY FRICKEN THING YOU FRICKEN MENTIONED because you didn’t watch it and you know it.


AND pay attention to your fricken bible because you have 0 outs with it. None especially with genesis 1:26 and genesis 3:22. Now YOU mention WHO is this “us” and WHO is this “our”. But naturally as last time you copped out of it.


I was born jewish so I’m perfectly aware of “The lord thy god the lord is one” And you were just proven wrong in which your entire religion is hinged upon. Because he’s NOT one according to your bible now is he? Nope. DUH.


Now that was a great deal a pleasure to compose.
wmickas

Con

Again my opponent's response was without substance. Let me see if I can read through my opponent's insults and find anything noteworthy of comment. Sorry for sarcasm. I'll go line by line of his rebuttal so my opponent does not think that I am dodging anything.

"I really hate it when Christians like you think that they have all the answers (I don't by the way and I am ready to admit to that when I someone in a debate says something that I cannot rebut, I say, "I don't know.") to nothing (Huh? Don't you mean that we think we know the answers to everything?) when in fact they know the answers to nothing and as as brainless as yodeling cabbage. I did that in round one (You might want to clarify your grammar here because you look like you just insulted yourself instead of insulting me) unless you want to go back and go through what I have previously posted and take it in AS EVIDENCE rather than acting as a typical smug smarta$$ christian that you knowingly are and with utter desperation because you 100% know that you"ve lost, you tried to change the subject, as only the typical christian understudy would do, or run away.(When was this?)"

Oh and oh yeah. That stupid "trinity" thing. Dump it. Its completely useless. What moron uses it? (Good, refute it then.) Look at other debates here on debate.org for proof imbecile. (I don't use debate.org as an authority)

Oh and oh yeah watch the fricken video which takes down EVERY FRICKEN THING YOU FRICKEN MENTIONED because you didn"t watch it and you know it.(Can I debate you and not the video?)

AND pay attention to your fricken bible because you have 0 outs with it. None especially with genesis 1:26 and genesis 3:22. Now YOU mention WHO is this "us" and WHO is this "our". But naturally as last time you copped out of it. (You did not read round one did you? I just said I use these verses to as trinitarian evidence in the scriptures)

I was born jewish so I"m perfectly aware of "The lord thy god the lord is one" And you were just proven wrong in which your entire religion is hinged upon. (Evidence please, not assertions. Engage with what I said) Because he"s NOT one according to your bible now is he? Nope. DUH. (More proof that my opponent did not read round one which I explained the difference between oneness in number and oneness in unity.)

Now that was a great deal a pleasure to compose. (Ditto)

I seriously hope my opponent does better and comes up with something better than his last rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

OK I’m not going to retread entirely what was stated in RD1. You have not thus far refuted a single thing stated in that round.


Oh and oh yeah. That stupid "trinity" thing. Dump it. Its completely useless. What moron uses it? (Good, refute it then.) No you prove that it holds authority on this debate. Look at other debates here on debate.org for proof imbecile. (I don't use debate.org as an authority) That right. You don’t. Therefore your entire conversation has no authority.


“Can I debate you and not the video?” No because you like all christians cannot handle any true evidence when slapped in the face with it and you fricken know it. And what a true contradictory hypocrite you are to think you can present me with any website information, but not me. You like so many christians here must not have any true genuine friends or loved ones. Wow does it show. That is very telling.


AND pay attention to your fricken bible because you have 0 outs with it. None especially with genesis 1:26 and genesis 3:22. Now YOU mention WHO is this "us" and WHO is this "our". But naturally as last time you copped out of it. (You did not read round one did you? I just said I use these verses to as trinitarian evidence in the scriptures) Yeah and I said trinity is useless garbage that only you use with no authority.


I was born jewish so I"m perfectly aware of "The lord thy god the lord is one" And you were just proven wrong in which your entire religion is hinged upon. (Evidence please, not assertions. Engage with what I said) OK we’re done. I’m not going to play your childish games. You keep on going there chum and have absolutely no one in your life, no friends, no loved ones. I guess that’s how you want it.

I proved it with the video. I proved it with the verses. I proved it with many others believing that J.C. is the son of god. So in turn others believe that he is actually a god. Thus there are TWO gods. And there’s another verse genesis 11:7. Oh and dimwitted dullard the trinity is NOT plural. Its NOT “us”. Its NOT “our”. You can invent all the lying excuses all you want. And you 100% know that you are flat---out---lying. Now if you do not understand that, then take a flying leap into a fire ants nest so that they may take many bites on your you know where areas for the rest of your moldy diaper daisy daring days.


Don’t even bother posting another argument to me. It will go unread. Your stupidity is beyond unbelief to make me believe that I will actually fall for your pretend childish plaything games. Not on YOUR life. I’m not going to jump into your pool of icecubed piranha for the nuts anymore. Bye.

wmickas

Con

Indeed we are done with this "debate" if you want a summary of this debate in 12 seconds go to https://www.youtube.com... I was hoping for more of an exchange of ideas instead of insults and evidence that he does not care for debate. To my Christian brethren, please don't waste your time debating this guy. I would like to conclude this debate by saying that my opponent has shown me that his intention for all the "debates" that he engages in is to slander demean Christianity. He is not interested in a respectful debate and dialogue. If you reading this debate and want to engage in a respectful discussion and debate with me, don't hesitate. If you want to show the kind of debate attitude that my opponent has shown me, please don't waste my time. In conclusion, if you want to experience the hope that you can only find in Christ go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com.... If you want me to be a guest speaker go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com.... If you want to debate me on another format other than debate.org go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com....
God bless!
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

Didn't read it. There's nothing of value that you have to say because you are really not that bright. Your smugness that is a part of you is just so soft as cushiony down. Did yah get to watch 60 minutes last night? Its estimated that there are now 2 trillion galaxies in the universe. 10x what was originally thought. That means 2 trillion black holes at least. So this mythical god of yours would be creating at least 2 trillion big blank nothingness whereas there's only been an estimated 106 billion humans souls to walk this earth. So your god favors blank black holes, nothingness, BY FAR over humans. Its not even a contest. Kinda tells us, namely man, just how deeply YOUR god cares about man which in comparison to black holes is negligent and is one big time loser.

wmickas

Con

Nothing to comment because this is totally off topic. I did not watch 60 minutes. I used to but haven't managed to find the time. Refer to round 3 for my conclusion.
Debate Round No. 4
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by judaism 1 week ago
judaism
I'm just an Orthodox Jew who follows Rambam, as the majority of us do. If you write/speak/see any rabbi, just ask him about mosc's beliefs, he'll laugh, and'll say, "good one! But certainly no one like that exists for real, right?"

That's right, it shouldn't exist. Mosc has never answered my top claim: Klal Yisroel. If you reject Rambam and Zohar, mosc, then you reject all major Jewish teaching for the past few centuries. You're a min, you're not a Jew if you go that rout. Imagine what would happen if we reacted like this to Talmud Bavli, or the Chumas? Mosc, you can't pick and choose, if the majority disagrees with you, that's something to think about, not reject.

I'm waiting for you to respond to this, will you? Or will you hide in the closet again? Klal Yisroel. Answer it.
Posted by mosc 1 week ago
mosc
Let me introduce you all to judaism: according to his religion he holds that he himself exists above all mortal Jews; of the major classic halachic poskim the Rif Rosh and Rambam, this puffed up egotist thinks any criticism of his God, even made by contemporary scholars of the Rambam have no merit. Judaism poo poos Rabanno Yona, the baali tosafot, and the Rosh. To quote this dude: "the Rosh was wrong". He gave no reasoning b/c god does not need to give a reason.
Posted by judaism 1 month ago
judaism
G-d said "Let us create man in our image," He meant the angels, otherwise, what about that interesting singular in the next verse where the supposed "us" create man? Therefore, G-d is ONLY one.
Posted by dsjpk5 8 months ago
dsjpk5
Hilarious!
Posted by bigdebate 8 months ago
bigdebate
Backwardseden is not worth debating. All he does is show two scriptures and tell you his incorrect interpretation of them is the only possible one. In Genesis it says "God created the heavens and the earth" Then, God proceeds to call Himself "us." Hmm... sounds like a trinitarian God to me...
In addition, The Gospel of John calls Jesus "the only begotten God." So, at this point both the Father and the Son are blatantly called God in the Bible.
Now for the Holy Spirit. Well, this is covered in Amos 2 (which was quoted by Peter in Acts) "and I shall pour out My Spirit upon them." So, at this point, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all called God in the Bible.
So, now comes the difficult Scripture (it really isn't but anyways): "Hear oh Israel the word of the Lord, Our God is one." This is the Scripture that the Jews use to this day to "debunk" Christianity. However, there is one problem with this. God IS one. God is one essence in three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one God, but in three persons. So God IS one essence AND three persons.
Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: In round two, Pro called Con "brainless"and a "smart a$$". This is poor conduct.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter sufficiently explains the point allocation. Repeated, similar votes on several debates is not sufficient reason to remove a vote. Debaters can choose to exclude voters if they wish, but they must include that in the rules of the debate.
************************************************************************
Posted by wmickas 9 months ago
wmickas
Throwback Thank you for your kind words. My aim is to speak the truth in love and respect. I would not call any of my debates with backwardseden debates because debates are a respectful exchange of ideas. we must remember that if it were not for the grace of God, then the darkness of that individual's life would be mine.
Posted by Throwback 9 months ago
Throwback
@wmickas, you're a better man than I. I got sucked into a brain draining debate with the troll, and I was trying to suffer through it and come out with as little absorbed brain damage as possible. He simply forfeited when continuing would mean he would lose. I could never man up enough for a second crack st him. You have my respect for making the effort.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
@canis - Yep. And "the lard thy god the lard is one" is utterly killed and demolished by your vidie thus proving that "the lard thy god the lard is NOT one" but is multiple/ plural gods which shatters all beliefs in this god as it most basic principles with its belief system and is now utterly worthless even though I'm sure that there will be a few screaming blue messiah neanderthals who do not know any better such as my opponent on this issue to open his deep fried maw and mutter a single word which doesn't hold up against any intelligent and educated argument. So many Thanx.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by DNehlsen 9 months ago
DNehlsen
backwardsedenwmickasTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro admitted that he did not read Pros arguments. Therefore he loses all argumentation.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenwmickasTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: In round two, Pro called Con "brainless"and a "smart ass". This is poor conduct.