goku vs superman goku stomps mad carzy 4
Debate Rounds (5)
To Summarize my argument Goku is a born fighter, and has the power, speed and strength to take down Superman.
Gokus techniques such as Ki blasts and Maniuplation, Instant Transmission, Combat sense, the Dragon Fist, and Telekensis trump Superman's abilites.
Goku's destructive power is insane, and rivaled by cosmic beings and God's. Goku can blow up planets with ease, and could blow up a large portion of the Galaxy at full power SSJ3.
Superman has never come close to that power.
When Goku can use Ki to bolster there already insane hitting power, Goku literally shakes the planet by the shockwaves his punches produces.
Goku's combat speed and Instant Transmission are way beyond Superman's level, showing how in base he can go FTL the Super Sayain forms would be even faster. In a fight, combat speed Goku is unmatched.
gotanks flyig around the earth in seconds
and goku fought on par with buu
Goku martial arts and fighting techniques completely surpass Superman.
Frieza can survive Namek exploding with his body chopped in half, SSJ Goku can do it easily.
Combined these factors and it concludes to Goku beating Superman. Anything at SSj2 level or above is enough to put down Superman.
Goku is a galaxy buster - but while it's never shown him destroying Galaxies, it's been stated by many characters that he and his (later) enemies could destroy whole Galaxies. What we do know for a fact however, is that Goku could destroy planets easily in ANY form;
Combat skill. While some writers have attempted to give Superman some training in martial arts, his fighting style is still primarily that of a brawler. It would be a huge stretch to call Superman an "expert" at martial arts (although some would argue that). In any event, Goku has a tremendous advantage in terms of technique over Superman
* Combat speed. Pretty much all combat in DBZ (and the whole second half of the original as well) is portrayed at occuring at hyper speeds. The exact upper limit on just how fast is not really explored, but considering that most characters display the ability to dematerialize to move faster than would otherwise be physically possible, it's not unreasonable to believe it could reach light speeds. as in will show The entire fight occurs at those speeds.
Superman, on the other hand, has shown mostly straight ahead attacks when speed blitzing. While it's understandable that some will think Superman has the speed advantage, in my estimation at short range Goku has a sizable advantage-- even against the mighty Silver Age Superman.
Superman cannot react and fight at the speed he travels, this is constantly shown throughout the comics. Failing to catch minigun fire.
* Energy projection. Goku has matched energy against beings who have shown the power to destroy worlds (some of them effortlessly) and gone millions of times beyond that inner power level. Whether that translates into millions of times that output or not is unclear, but assuming a small scale increase in output, Goku would still be capable of destroying pretty much any size world. This level of destructive force should be too great for Post-Crisis or even Modern Age Superman.
Combat skill. While some writers have attempted to give Superman some training in martial arts, his fighting style is still primarily that of a brawler. It would be a huge stretch to call Superman an "expert" at martial arts (although some would argue that). In any event, Goku has a tremendous advantage in terms of technique over Superman Superman's heat ray vision does not compare favorably.
* Energy sense. Goku is able to repress his power signature and evade detection. Superman has shown no such power. Goku would be warned of any sneak attack. * Dematerializing and Instant Transmission. Goku has repeatedly used this in combat to gain advantage or take away an opponent's advantage. It even works to negate Goku's greater than light speed long distance travel advantage.
Ki Sense is the ability to detect a person's Ki from great distances. Goku can detect people across the planet with ease. Now it is unsure whether Goku would detect Superman's KI, but Ki is living aura, everyone has it. The average human has a Power Level of 5, and Goku could sense other alies from across the Galaxy. So sensing Superman's Ki wouldn't be any different.
Also Superman can detect Goku with enhanced sense, so there would be no hiding on ether side. (Not that they would want to)
Was able to pinpoint Bulma's KI out of billions of people on Earth
Additional Details, Saiyans CAN survive in space, reference Vegeta and Nappa destroying the planet Arlia from outer space.
Goku could use the Spirit Bombalso the sprit bomb cam kill any thing
Goku's most versatile techniques. It's teleportation that can be used for multiple effects. It's so fast Goku can travel across the Galaxy and hit Namek in an instant.
Now lets see The ship tog et to Namek
It took the Spaceship a couple of seconds to reach Jupiter and it takes light 32-54 minutes to reach Juptier from Earth.
Therefore the Spaceship >>>>>>>>>> faster then Light Speed Travel
And Since it took the ship over 10 days to get to Namek, and Goku traveled to Namek in an instant, from King kai's planet.
Using the Instant Tranmission to travel across the galaxy, and between dimensons to Namek. His Instant Transmission speed is thousands of times faster then light, and can be used to cross dimensions between living and dead.
This would be a huge factor and requires little to no Ki. Goku has trained to use it without putting a finger to his head.
goku can draw power from the sun the same as superman
also superman had help to move the planet and could only move it a bit with the JL with no help superman could not move it superman is weaker as his powers are from the sun a near infinite power source that goku could destroy even with the sun
superman is no mach for goku superman is unable to destrory the earth with out the power of the sun while goku could with his own power superman has no combat ability and was beat by an non power karate kid even with the power of the sun And considering that the Earth"s atmosphere reflects and absorbs 2/3rds of all solar radiation Superman should only be capable of on the of have of what he would be able to do in space superman great feat of moveing 1/3 of the earth with the jla even in space still the only way superman could even stand a close to goku
The IMP is an ability granted by the Speed Force and utilizing its power. As the flash called it, he's accessing speed heaven. The speed force is what allows the flash to run at light speed and protects him from the affects of moving that fast.
Superman's strength comes from the sun, which is big an pretty much infinite, but there is only so much of that energy he can store in himself, even after a sundip. He has an upper limit.
The Flash's relativistic punches come from E = MC". C is constant. And considering that the Flash can go faster than light, E is essentially infinite, making his mass and thus the power of his punch also infinite.
In other words.
Superman can punch really hard, and he can fly really fast, but his power is instant. He can't move fast enough to stop time, but the flash can. The flashs punch strength with the IMP is infinite.
Superman could certainly do a speed strike, which is using the speed of travel to increase the mass of the punch, but he can't do the infinite mass punch because his power Is limited. The flash has access to the infinite speed force.
busting a dark moon almost killed him
the question is who is faster goku or superman how fast is goku lets look
something to be truly invisible to the human eye it would have to be moving at the speed of light.
First off, someone needs to stop watching that show. Second off I know I'm routing for Batman in a battle between him and Superman, but that is based of of my rock paper scissors scenario if you check out my other argument. Goku very well could beat Superman, but he very well could lose to superman. Their power levels are both well over 9,000 :) Yet superman and Goku's abilities come so close the winner basically is the strongest, literally in how much they can lift. Superman is much stronger than Goku by far if you have checked out any of the old comics. Superman has pulled planets out of the gravitational pull of its star. Just to top it all off, the only way Superman could be defeated by Goku would be if he revealed his weaknesses, being red stars and kryptonite. Superman would not be stupid enough to reveal either one and if he did he could still pull through (unless Goku shoots him with a kryptonite bullet). If Goku teleported Superman to a star other than a yellow one (since the yellow star is the source of his power) he could defeat him. If superman is brought to red star he's dead. If he is brought to a blue star his power is doubled from what it already is. Go to http://m.youtube.com... to see the basics from screw attacks death battle Goku VS Superman to see the basics.
I like batman also he was my favorite superhero from a kid I like comics more than anime the only anime I like is dbz
how can batman beat superman? if superman can lift more that batman? because batman is a fighter (Goku very well could beat Superman, but he very well could lose to superman) this is right because writer chaises the outcome but in this fight is no writer
batman has Bay superman I think 7 times(even in the new 52) the only time superman ever beat batman was injustice video game so how does batman do it? kyptonite, red sun, sonics,robot suit. he breings superman to batman level then superman cant win batman has better fighting ability and can judo superman even when he has powers and can get a few hits in before his hand hurt
that brings he to he point superman is not a fighter in any way look at my past arguments superman has yoga and pressure points as a fighting stile
Goku's abilities are better than superman powers and in a fight would win
If Goku teleported Superman to a star other than a yellow one (since the yellow star is the source of his power) he could defeat him. yes
If he is brought to a blue star his power is doubled from what it already is
he would blow it up blue star sun?
also the disc that could cut superman in hafe
Superman could be defeated by Goku would be if he revealed his weaknesses i donk this so batman and karate kid have both beat superman and have got hits in he is not that stronger aquaman and ww both could beat him and have to say goku would not is wrong
superman has no power level and no feats that show he would have a strong one
goku would to clear win this with just fighting
and power he could blow up galaxys
The original superman could, and would sneeze away entire solar systems. If you don't believe me look it up on the video from my last argument. Also supermans strength, speed, and durability are well beyond that of Goku's. Goku can lift 160,000 tons, go 2.5 billion kilometers per hour, and withstand 34.7 Sextillion megatons of force. While Superman can lift 6.6 quintillion tons, go 9.4 billion kilometers per hour, and withstand 10 octillion megatons of force. Superman and Goku are literally so equally in everything else, you have to base it off of this to see who should win. Obviously Goku could find out a way to defeat Superman, hence the red Sun and kryptonite, but without any knowledge of them Goku is screwed.
is was the silver age the original superman could not fly and fought for what us small people thought was good against the mob bad land lords and corrupting in the government as a news reporter and was a hero the people
sliver age superman boxed muhammad ail and lost
sliver age superman was a homeless man who made lois fat
stats from death battle are wrong
Unless you can prove to me the death battle stats are wrong, with a reliable source, that part of your argument is invalid. Also I should tell you the rock paper scissors scenario. As you know rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, but paper also Barbara rock. Even though rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, which is the one that beats rock. In turn Superman beats a powerful enemy. Yet this powerful enemy beats Batman. Batman beats superman though. In turn Batman can beat Superman, but is defeated by the enemy that Superman defeated. I agree with you Batman would beat Superman, but that doesn't mean a different kind of enemy, Goku, can defeat superman.Also, if superman is beaten by someone in a game like injustice, it doesn't matter. In its case there is no rock, paper, scissors. Anyone can beat anyone.
reliable source death battle? it not a reliable source
how can i know superman stats what proof do you have? show it to me
prove death battle math is corect
In turn Batman can beat Superman yes
if superman kills batman in a comic like injustice it is non canon
also you have missread me go back a do it a agian
and how is superman stronger than goku he cant take a nuke
superman cant take a nuke while goku fires planet destorying attacks
goku takes a nuke just fine even the db brfore z
time for the beat superman list
well how about the peole who can beat superman"list
beat by batman http://i.stack.imgur.com...
wouped by aqua man
wouped by muhammad ali http://media.npr.org...
killed by doomsday
jimmy olson (can turn in to doomsday)
killed by wonderwoman
supermans own legs http://media.animevice.com...
the harlem globetrotters
porno directors http://comicsalliance.com...
nocked out in one punch captain marvel http://i.stack.imgur.com...
beating by the demon http://static.comicvine.com...
red kryptonite (makes superman an ant)
krypto tne superdog http://sequart.org...
karate kid http://i3.photobucket.com...
black kryptonite (turns evil)
gold kryptonite (lose powers forever)
pink kryptonite (turns gay) http://lh3.ggpht.com...;
anyone with mind control or magic
The Green Lanterns any lantern http://i.stack.imgur.com...
harry potter (magic)
scooby doo and the gang
this guy http://i227.photobucket.com...
white women http://img594.imageshack.us...
white guy http://static.comicvine.com...
the flash http://static.comicvine.com...
beat by the manhunter http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com...
ali agian http://static.comicvine.com...
sword guy http://static.comicvine.com...
the teen titans http://static.comicvine.com...
rush limbaughs flapy body ( the same effect"as"kryptonite)
spiderman (he beat batman screw attack)
Skeletor (new 52)
he-man (new 52)
godzilla (he beat the avengers spiderman is in avengers spiderman beat batman batman beat justice league superman is in justice league)
godzilla is a boss http://i1270.photobucket.com... http://superherouniverse.com...
Beaten By Atlas http://imageshack.us...
Beaten by Dominus http://imageshack.us...
Beaten by Hawkman drawing energy from the Earths magnetic core (Not Magic)
superman vs brid
Pretty sure this was General Zod (may be wrong)
Pounded by Lobo http://imageshack.us...
Defeated by Orion http://imageshack.us...
General Eiling http://imageshack.us...
Robot Superman http://static.comicvine.com...
Robot guy and a monkey http://static.comicvine.com...
iron man http://i29.tinypic.com...
if i messed any please tell me
note this list is in complet if i had every one this would take up evey word in the forum
goku is better in every way
Before you tell me Death battle isn't a reliable source, prove it. Before telling me to look it up somewhere else why don't you? Until then, it is a reliable source. Also, there are many transforming of comic book characters, while Goku is limited to his show. Superman has been anywhere to a weaker, more human like hero, as well as an unstoppable force of good. Also, If Superman can fly into the sun, and gain energy from it, why can't he withstand a nuclear blast. This is because their are different versions of Superman, just like any comic book hero. I mist be honest, in some versions Superman would be destroyed, but in other versions, Goku would be finished. The stats from death battle are based off of real comic books, and the stats from a real show. If superman was at his full potential (like at the end of Death battle) even at his full potential, Goku's strength, speed, and durability are no where near Supermans. Also, just because Goku did blow up a galaxy, doesn't mean superman can't do the same thing in some version. Also If Goku was to release this galaxy destroying blast, Superman can fly out of the way with his immense speed. I'm sorry to tell you but, a giant laser isn't everything.
yes superman is not one of them goku can transform superman can not he is often recanted because of poor writing
If Superman can fly into the sun, and gain energy from it, why can't he withstand a nuclear blast.
i dont know i did not wright superman
in death battle superman strength was from all star superman a non canon superman story
(Dr. Leo Quintum and his team from P.R.O.J.E.C.T. are exploring the Sun when they are sabotaged by a Lex Luthor clone. Superman saves the day, but acquires the ability to project his bio-electric aura. Lex Luthor has orchestrated this to overwhelm Superman's cells with massive amounts of solar radiation. Quintum determines that Superman's new power is also killing him, and he has one year left to live. Lex Luthor is arrested, thanks to a Daily Planet article by Clark Kent. Superman decides to keep his impending death secret from the public.)
this superman was stronger but also dieing even an a point in the story to where he could not use his powers this was misquoted
Also Superman has never moved the earth Superman has never moved a planet or a moon without aid. He has failed to move moons with the same mass or even lower by himself.
- Failed to stop a moon even with several Kryptonians helping him.
-Stuggling to pull the moon even with the aid of Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and a whole Team of magic users.
After being powered by Strange Visitor and a sundip he struggled moving Warworld which is only the size of Pluto (smaller than Earths moon). Brainiac even states Kal normally wouldn't have the strength to move that.
The most popular scan which looks like it is depicted as Superman moving 1/3 of the Earth. This however is completely out of context.
Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter failed to move the Earth it was actually Kyle who moved it with help.
Taken from: JLA 75
death battle said superman could move the earth with out help was this a error?
superman has been anywhere to a weaker, more human like hero, as well as an unstoppable force of good
I mist be honest, in some versions Superman would be destroyed versons
you even say most versons of superman would lose think
think is superboy the same as superman? i think not
DEATH BATTLE RELIED ON PLATITUDES RATHER THAN ACTUAL NUMBERS FOR ITS CONCLUSION.
BUT according to Ben that does not really matter what matters was the logic behind the outcome.
Death Battle's Logic:
https://youtu.be... "The difference is at the core of their character, Goku has never been invincible, he has very clear limits and must overcome those limits to solve the problems at hand. That"s the whole point"After accepting his alien side Superman has reached his full potential which under the power of the yellow sun is essentially limitless. In short Superman is as Strong as he needs to be. So what happens when you pit a man able to break any limit against a man who has no limits in the first place? Well only one has limits to give it all.
Death Battle was supposed to analyze Goku versus Superman, not their respective plot devices. Regardless, the determinative factor for Superman's victory was that when Goku overcomes his obstacles he does so with difficulty, whereas Superman can do so with ease :
3 things are wrong with this rationale:
1. First, "Goku must overcome those limits to solve the problems at hand. That's the whole point"
That is only partially true.
Also at Goku's core is that he is a man with limitless potential one whose whole character is built on the notion that hard work and determination will always overcome any obstacle. That is really the whole point.
Ben even says Goku "can break any limit" and did not consider what that actually means.
To have limitless potential means if Superman has reached his full potential then Goku could still reach a higher level, becuase Goku's potential is limitless.
Further at the heart of Goku is his ability to overcome natural talent. Entrisic to him is the idea that hard work overcomes entitlement. That's kind of the point of his Eastern Cultural herritage and why Vegeta became outclassed.
Goku defeated General Tao, King Piccolo, Piccolo, Vegeta, the Ginyu Special Corps, Freiza, etc. ones with superior birth right power, becuase Goku's powers were earned not given.
2. Second at his core "Superman...is essentially limitless"
That is also somewhat of a fallacy. Superman has the potential to accomplish limitless feats if he is in the presence of the yellow sun and given enough time because he is not instantly limitless.
Otherwise Superman would never be worn down in a battle, need to sundip, etcR03;
He would essentially already be Superman Prime. even tho superman prime took and i quote one humdred centurys to become superman prime goku could still blow up the sun and kill superman goku>sun
In some ways his body actually limits him; such as being peaked at small planet shattering punches because he cannot continue to exert energy upon full arm extension (like Goku with ki). Unlike accelerating to infinity where he can keep thrusting his whole body forward, his arm is attached at his shoulder so that is the limit of the force he can exert without moving the rest of his body.
3. Third, the numbers do matter because not only do they yield a diffierent result when analyzed correctly, but also by discounting what obstacles Superman overcomes and how Goku's abilities progressed Death Battle cheapens the characters and degrades their uniqueness.
SO if we rely on platitudes then the version of Goku that Death Battle used (not soleley Manga canon) still wins even if we only looked at the core of each of these characters
"So what happens when you have a man capable of limitless feats and one who has limitless potential, well only one of them can access their potential in an instant and go even further beyond. The winner is Goku"
"So what happens when you have a man who has reached his full potential and one whose potential is limitless. Well only one of them can go even further beyond. The winner is Goku."
goku beomes a god
The stats from death battle are based off of real comic books, and the stats from a real show. If superman was at his full potential (like at the end of Death battle) even at his full potential, Goku's strength, speed, and durability are no where near Supermans. Also, just because Goku did blow up a galaxy, doesn't mean superman can't do the same thing in some version.
no thay were not also if you go into what if a version superman could blow up a galaxy there is not a superman that can do that right now if so it would be superman prime http://static.comicvine.com...
lets look at gokus stats
Strength(no Ki): 160,000 tons
Durability: 34.7 sextillion megatons
Speed: about 2.3 times the speed of light
So they should have multiplied Goku's base power by 400 then used the saiyen multipliers They multiplied his stats by 586 (186 higher than 400) before using the saiyen multipliers. 586 came from the greatest amount of gravity Goku has ever trained under, 586 times.
Durability and Strength/Damage output
657 quadrillion megatons
only takes 53 quadrillion megatons to make earth goes KABOOM.
if that was Goku's output back in the saiyen Saga, back then, Goku could go 11,000 km/hr (or 3.06 km/s).
20,037.5/3.06=6548 times greater
so, 657*6548 to get Goku's base by Namek (because that is totally his DBZ base before any thing boosts him....)=4302169 quadrillion megatons*586*4000=1e28 megatons.....or about 10 octillion megatons.
this make sence right?
well i am done you turn con
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate was a mes, and was incredibly hard to read. But Pro definitely presented the stronger overall case--Con seems to have mentioned most of his points almost in passing, as opposed to actually supporting them. Arguments to Pro. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
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