The Instigator
harrytruman
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Rezamee
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

gold standard

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/17/2015 Category: Economics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 387 times Debate No: 79822
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
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harrytruman

Pro

Rules for a debate:
Please note that the following terms are non-personalized and are issued directly before any debate I make:
1.Saying I didn"t cite my sources is not a supporting statement, common knowledge such as "issuing more money causes inflation" does not need a source.
2.No straw man fallacies please, an example of this would be saying "We should not return to the gold standard because that means carrying around bars of gold and that isn"t practical"
3.Don"t lie; an example of this is saying "carbon 14 can"t be broken down except by nuclear fission!"
Yes these are actual quotes from people that tried things like this, which is why I made these terms.
Gold standard:
For this debate I will be discussing how we should and why we should return to the gold standard:
First and foremost is inflation, a gold standard would self-regulate how much money is issued as the US Treasury could only issue as much dollars as they can account for in gold, in addition, allowing a currency to be exchanged for gold would renew people"s faith in the US Dollar as humans innately consider gold and silver valuable, a piece of paper connected to precious metals will be automatically considered more valuable than a piece of paper connected to a unconstitutional central bank (But that is another debate so I will not get into it now), seeing a dollar bill connected to gold and silver will almost eliminate inflation as it will be considered valuable, and value is only what we assign to something, as long as everyone considers it valuable, it is, gold is just better at convincing people that it is valuable than paper is. Eliminating inflation will be better for investment as less money will be lost to inflation in savings, increased investment will lead to more jobs as more businesses will be established, more jobs will lead to more revenue, which means more tax revenue, with steadily increasing tax revenue, the deficit will be eliminated.
Next is deflation, with the return of the gold standard and the elimination of inflation business owners will lose the need to charge more for their goods and services, leading to the dollars increase in value, which will lead to an increased minimum wage as 8$ will be worth more, slowly reestablishing a middle class, and shrinking the gap.
Third a gold standard would eliminate any centralized monopolization over the economy, the Federal Reserve will not be able to stage bubbles and bank runs, but the Federal Reserve is a different debate though.
I do not intend to create a straw man argument so I will state the opposing argument, and refute all of them:
Some people argue that the gold standard would not allow for immediate action,
I am refuting this by stating that the US Treasury could easily keep a reserve of gold and silver for immediate relief, and issue certificates against these reserves.
They also argue that carrying around bars of gold and silver would not be practical,
This is by far the weakest of their debates as no one was suggesting carrying gold bullion around but gold and silver coin and certificates.
Third they argue that in our current economy you could not buy something with gold and silver,
This is refuted by the fact that Texas has created the Texas Bullion Depository, and in Texas you can create an account with the Texas Bullion Depository by depositing gold and silver bullion or coin like depositing dollars into a bank, and transfer funds from it like a bank account, and use this account or physical gold and silver to pay your taxes, which led businesses to accept bullion and coin.
All of this is economics or common knowledge, please do not use a blatant statement like saying I did not cite for this debate, anything else I am more than willing to (and did) provide sources as seen below:
Sources:
http://truthinmedia.com......
http://www.nytimes.com......
Rezamee

Con

Now the Gold Standard has been abandoned for many good reasons, and my opponent believes that we should re-institute it into our financial system. Pro claims that a Gold Standard (GS) would eliminate inflation, allow for economic growth in the field of business, and halt the Federal Reserves economic monopolization. He also claims that a GS currency would be seen with higher legitimacy than with the current dollar backed currency.

My opponent is correct in the fact that a Gold Standard will halt inflation which could allow for a higher valued currency, this I agree on. However, this comes with a cost. If we were to switch to gold backing our currency, this will not mean other nations will follow. The United States currently enjoys the benefits for having the world's reserve currency, and if were to suddenly relinquish that position in global dominance, China would be quick to reimburse. Not only that but the market would have to adjust to a higher valued dollar. Lets say the dollar today became 10 times more valuable, this might seem good on paper, but this would lead to a chain of events causing people to start hoarding money which can lead to poor business productivity, that leads to lay offs, this can go into a spiral finally ending in an economic bust. My opponent explains on how a GS would lead to little inflation (true) and how this would lead to economic growth. This is false, when a nation uses the Gold Standard, it effectively caps its economic growth to the amount of gold it can mine. Meaning that there isn't enough money to go around for everyone, moreover, a economic ceiling would be reached. For the United States this is bad news, one of the only reasons we have such high economic prosperity is because we abandoned the Gold Standard and its economic ceiling, if we were to regress, one can see a decline in GDP... not good. The Federal Reserve was stated to be for another debate, so I will leave it untouched in my arguments. Now the Pros claim that a gold backed dollar will be seen in higher light is completely untrue due to human nature. In our current society we do not posses and peoples that refuse to use currency, for it is not backed by gold, no such person can survive in modern society without complying with our financial methods. Also there is another huge flaw with the GS, you can easily override it by claiming gold is worth nothing to your society, and you'll much rather use some other form of currency backing. If this were to occur in our globalized economy it could be a catalyst for economic disaster.

Sorry for short and lazy response, did not know it was a 24 hour round so I rushed myself.
Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Pro

I do not see how china reimbursing an unknown person for not known reasons has any relevance in our financial position, I would also like to state that our economy has not progressed since we abandoned the gold and silver standard, in fact it has regressed, the middle class disappeared due to inflation as a unbiased inflation calculator is inaccessible, so the minimum wage decreased from 25$ adapted to inflation to 8$ adapted to inflation, if you mean the amount of $ being hoarded by corporations in bank accounts (trickle down doesn"t work when the money is hoarded in a bank), or the size of the GAP, then yes our economy has progressed, the deficiency of gold is irrelevant, a tiny island called Brittan with no natural resources remained in the gold standard for 2000 years without slip ups, a place like America with massive gold mines in California, and massive silver mines in Nevada has no excuse, furthermore foreigners refusing to use our currency will result in less imports, less money leaking out of our economy, more economic growth.
Rezamee

Con

First off, you forgot to reply to my argument that a gold standard will bring an economic ceiling. Two, the United States enjoys the benefits of upholding the World Reserve Currency (Dollar), if China were to take that role, we would be in some trouble. Why we would be in trouble you may ask? Since we obtained Reserve Currency status we were able to control the global market via every country using the dollar. How does this deal with the gold standard? If we were to abruptly change our currency to be backed by gold, other large nations might follow, meaning the dollar will not be the reserve currency. Plus we do not posses the most gold on the planet nor do we mine the most, that title goes to China. So unless you are pro China, stepping back to the GS will hurt more than it would help the US economy. Now you claim that less imports due to a gold standard would help the economy, I do not know if you have any basic idea in economics, but imports can be a good sign that an economy is strong, at least strong enough to support importing. Going back to the economic ceiling negative, there isn't enough gold for the United States, at least with our current economic size, meaning a GS will lead to a decrease in GDP. Unless of course we invest heavily into asteroid mining, get us some space gold, but until then, the gold standard shall remain abandoned.

Again, sorry for the lackluster response, I am very busy and I regret accepting this debate. If only I looked if it were going to be a 24 hour round debate.
Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Pro

Printing more money will not lead to prosperity, history has shown repetitively that "printing your way to prosperity winds you up with a barrow full of cash, to buy a loaf of bread", keeping reserves of gold and silver allows to issue money if necessary, no one will trust the communists, anyone who does it is better for us that they not use our currency, I would also like to state that imports take money out of the economy, and hence moves jobs to other countries, lowering imports will lead to more native industry, higher GPD, it is not feasible to go with fiat 1000 years from now, whereas gold has successfully upheld economies for well over 5000 years.
Rezamee

Con

Okay, first of the nation state of Great Britain has not been around for 2000 years, two, you spelled Britain wrong, three if you knew basic history, the British Isles were under Roman control 2000 years ago. So your argument from R2 is irrelevant, also there is no nation state that currently exists that have consistently used the GS for 5000 years. Meaning, your idea of the GS being stable through means of time is as well... irrelevant. Furthermore, you state that printing more money will lead to a backlash, this is true, but I never said anything about printing more money and there's is something called the Federal Reserve, they regulate our inflation to best suit our economy. A scenario to where the US would end up like post WW1 Germany is highly speculative due to the fact that post WW1 Germany did not have a Federal Reserve controlling inflation rates. And although imports do lead to jobs being exported, a GS will do nothing to stop this, it will only add an economic ceiling something you failed to reply on.

Again, my opponent failed to reply to the fact that a GS would lead to economic ceiling due to lack of gold to uphold the current US GDP. Meaning we would see a decrease in business activity leading to lower consumerism, which spirals into an economic bust... we do not want another Great Depression.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
Brittan has been around for 200 years, if you don't know your history don't go to this site, it wasn't a sovereign nation until 200 years later when Rome collapsed but it still issued gold and silver coin.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
1 hour.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
ok.
Posted by Rezamee 1 year ago
Rezamee
Oh god I did not see that, whelp. Time to type.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
8 hours 45 minutes, post soon.
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