The Instigator
ahundredhighways
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

government funded social programs

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/29/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,446 times Debate No: 2291
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (7)

 

ahundredhighways

Pro

this was your response to one of my comments

let's see here, a capitalist eh?
You favor welfare. You favor social security, you favor "social programs," you favor national health care, you favor medicaid and medicare, you favor minimum wage, you favor campaign finance reform, and this on top of your stimulus package. You can have the label "conservative," of the old world variety or theocrat variety, but don't you dare call yourself a capitalist. You are not in the slightest.

I am a capitalist and i favor all of this for a reason, because people have become dependent on the government for their handouts, if you take them away, what do they do, they suffer.

Roosevelt gave massive handouts during the depression, which made the people dependent on them and prolonged the suffering, they didn't have the initive to go help themselevs when they got a check from uncle sam.

and deep down, i don't favor the stimulus package because i know that people will still spend beyond their means, running up credit card debt and taking out more loans
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

"capitalism |ˈkapətlˌizəm| noun an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

welfare |ˈwelˌfe(ə)r| noun: (leaving out the nonpolitical context stuff.)
statutory (read state) procedure designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need : the protection of rights to education, housing, and welfare.

National health care (not in dictionary I'm afraid, use wikipedia for this one under "universal": is the result of government programs intended to ensure that all citizens, and sometimes permanent residents, of a governmental region have free or subsidized access to most types of health care.

Etc. Do I have to reduce it all to symbolic language and show you the contradictions? You are not a capitalist.

"
I am a capitalist and i favor all of this for a reason, because people have become dependent on the government for their handouts, if you take them away, what do they do, they suffer.
Roosevelt gave massive handouts during the depression, which made the people dependent on them and prolonged the suffering, they didn't have the initive to go help themselevs when they got a check from uncle sam.

"

The answer to an evil is not to continue it, but to abolish it when the situation is ripe. Dependence is not created by the government alone, it is created by unconditional cooperation with the government. Those who have become dependent are complicit in Roosevelt's crimes. Their suffering is not a license to use of my money by way of taxes. Need is not a claim on the unearned.

Of course, economics tells us in the long run they will NOT suffer as a result, and indeed will suffer if the programs continue. But what of it? Even if it were somehow true that the masses benefit from government interference despite all evidence to the contrary, it would be no excuse. Justice does not relent just because the guilty aren't pleased when thinking of it.

"and deep down, i don't favor the stimulus package because i know that people will still spend beyond their means, running up credit card debt and taking out more loans"

Then why did you explicitly support the stimulus package in the comment chain in question? Are you a Straussian, to hold multiple contradictory positions on the same issues as expediency demands?
Debate Round No. 1
ahundredhighways

Pro

ahundredhighways forfeited this round.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Forfeits are not fun, especially when they bar potential rebuttal to second round.Forfeits are not fun, especially when they bar potential rebuttal to second round.
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
What a surprise, ahundredhighways supports Mike Huckabee. I can deal with liberals; even socialists. But I CANNOT STAND liberal/socialists who claim to be conservatives or capitalists!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
*goes to the people page and quickly finds a few people who have a very slightly lower ratio :D
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
You've got the lowest disagree ratio with me I've seen yet among those who completed their profiles defenestrator :D.

Since that ratio is 25% I must be way out there in extremism land 0_0
Posted by Defenestrator 9 years ago
Defenestrator
forfeits are not fun, con wins on that point, also the rest of the debate too, good job con
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by lorca 9 years ago
lorca
ahundredhighwaysRagnar_RahlTied
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Vote Placed by ahundredhighways 9 years ago
ahundredhighways
ahundredhighwaysRagnar_RahlTied
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Vote Placed by Curlz31 9 years ago
Curlz31
ahundredhighwaysRagnar_RahlTied
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Vote Placed by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
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Vote Placed by Defenestrator 9 years ago
Defenestrator
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Vote Placed by Amos 9 years ago
Amos
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Vote Placed by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
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