The Instigator
bonnieboy
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
FunkeeMonk91
Con (against)
Winning
42 Points

health care:if we get health care for all in this country, we will be like canada. scrued up forever

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,192 times Debate No: 2197
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (16)

 

bonnieboy

Pro

health care sucks because if we get health care then our world will be cahnged forever because health care gives equall health care to all. i believe that if you have the money to get any health care you want, then you should do so.
FunkeeMonk91

Con

First of all, you didn't really post any legitimate arguments, so I have nothing to rebuttal. But here it goes anyways.

To win this debate, you have to do two things: 1) prove that Canada is "scrued [sic] forever" and 2) prove that health care would not benefit all US citizens. If you don't do this, you lose. I'm just saying to make sure that this is a real debate and not a pointless internet fight.

Second, health care is a necessity for all people. There are thousands upon thousands who die or are not treated for severe injuries, simply because they cannot 1) pay for insurance or 2) be covered by their insurance company. Is this fair? Is this just? Money should not be the priority; human lives are what really matter. If everyone pitched in a little more from their taxes, everyone can gain the right to medical help. I mean, it doesn't make sense not to provide health care. "We have a cure for your illness, but we can't give it to you because we need to make sure that the pharmaceutical/insurance companies make 5000% profit." Is this what this country has become?

Again, I don't know how you can prove Canada is "scrued" up. It is a great country that looks out for its citizens. What's wrong with providing people with long, healthy lives, and the ability to keep working? Also, many other countries have adopted nationalized health care, and their just fine. I think America is on the decline in terms of international status, because we are afraid to move away from our capitalist past. Not to say that things like socialism/communism are good, but why has this country prioritized gross profits over human lives? Is this what America has become?
Debate Round No. 1
bonnieboy

Pro

bonnieboy forfeited this round.
FunkeeMonk91

Con

My opponent failed to respond, so I guess I just have to reiterate these (oversimplified) points.

1) How is Canada screwed up? If anything, they are doing much better than we are. They may not be an economic or military powerhouse, but their citizens/domestic affairs are must more successful than ours. They seem to know what their doing.

2) Isn't health care a necessity to live? I think it's unjust to deny someone medicine that costs next to nothing to produce because greedy and corrupted insurance companies are trying to save a pretty penny. Lives > money.
Debate Round No. 2
bonnieboy

Pro

bonnieboy forfeited this round.
FunkeeMonk91

Con

Need I say more?
100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 characters - 100 100 100 100 characters = votes for FunkeMonk91.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
mindjob -

Great rebuttal.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
I joined NYTimes.com just so I could read your link. Why is it that people who dismiss Canada's system, which is still better overall than ours for the majority of their citizens, don't bother to understand why their system might be lacking. It says in the article itself that the waits are due primarily to a lack of health professionals, mainly doctors. If they developed policies aimed at recruiting and training more health professionals, their wait times would fall precipitously. The criticism of the privatizing movement in Canada is justified, however, since much of the problem in Canada has been the fact that the same doctors that work in the public sector also work in the private sector. Expanding the private sector will only make that problem worse if they don't start making more doctors.

Do Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly tell you any of this? Nope. They just say that socialized medicine is hopelessly flawed and proclaim the supremacy of our system, largely because their individual wealth gives them access to health care that the rest of us could only dream of. Canada is still ranked 7 spots ahead of us at #30, even when responsiveness is taken into account. Access to the system is what kills us. As mentioned in your link, even the Canadians look to European countries at role models for their systems. Not counting countries like San Marino or Andorra, Western European countries make up 12 out of the top 20 on the WHO's list, with Belgium at 21.

Insurance companies cutting hospitals off at the knees by only paying a percentage of Medicare, forcing hospitals to inflate their prices, administrative overhead and pharmaceutical companies taking an average of 17% of revenues as profits and spending over 30% on advertising, while only spending 13% on R&D, among others, are the reasons why our health care is so expensive. All of those reasons are the direct result of our system being private and for-profit.
Posted by DonaldAbraham 9 years ago
DonaldAbraham
Canadas healthcare system is in absolute shambles!

http://www.nytimes.com...

There are reasons why healthcare in America is so expensive, and its not because of "greedy" businessmen.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
There are horror stories in both the US and Canada, but that's irrelevant because the proportion of horror stories in the US is far higher than that of Canada.

The only reason the US has such an advanced healthcare system is because it is publicly-subsidized at every level (from the taxpayer-supported medical education facilities, to the taxpayer-supported research).

And yet, in spite of the fact that US taxpayers fund a huge proportion (if not the vast majority) of medical innovations in this country - we hand those publicly-funded ventures over to the private sector to price-gouge us with. That's why in spite of our advanced system, the proportion of US citizens who actually have ACCESS to that system is vastly smaller than the proportion in other developed nations.

It's amazing to see anyone still pimping for the private healthcare system in spite of the fact that its overhead costs are vastly higher than any government programs, and in spite of the fact that I defy anyone to say that the customer service for their HMO is any better than the service you get at your local DMV.
Posted by wingo101 9 years ago
wingo101
There are horror stories either way. At least in America, we have the most innovative, best health care system in the history of the world. If you beleve that health care in this county is unfair, then that's ok, but don't pretend that health care itself is better in Canada. Let's have an honest conversation here. And yes they do treat your sicknessin Canada, but the simple tests often come far too late.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
I think its horrible that 14% if Canadians have to wait over 6 months for an ELECTIVE surgery. That's a disgrace. Much less so than the fact that we have over 100,000 preventable deaths in this country because people aren't insured or have bad coverage.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Boy howdy! I hear that when you're sick in Canada... the doctors treat you for your illness.

Freaky bastards!
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Vote Placed by potterfreak5 8 years ago
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