The Instigator
blackliger777
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
shatteredseren
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

homosexuality and ssm isn't condemned in the bible.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 366 times Debate No: 87538
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

blackliger777

Pro

There is nothing in the Scriptures that states that homosexuality is a sin, and you are not capable of proving otherwise. Leviticus and Romans were both reffering to Pagan idolatrous sex acts, not homosexuality. Genesis only refers to the beginning, it does not state that God wants it to be only that for all time. Anyone who states that it does, is acting as if they know all of God's plan.
shatteredseren

Con

I hereby accept your challenge. For the record, I am pro-gay marriage.
Contrary to my opponent's position, homosexuality is VERY much condemned in the Bible. In fact the punishment for a man caught having sexual relations with another man was death. Here are the Bible verses, Old and New Testament,
Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
This was a commandment given to Moses, a male. God was telling Moses that if "you" (men) have sex with another man "as one lies with a female" it is an abomination. No mention is given to paganism, and the verse is SOLELY referring to homosexuality. In fact, the prohibition on Pagan rituals appears in a completely different section of the Law.
Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
Again, similarly to the above, no mention of pagan rituals or sex acts is given. The punishment given for same-sex acts in this passage is DEATH.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
NOR HOMOSEXUALS shall inherit the Kingdom of God. This verse is used as an effective rebuttal to those who claim God is against only same-sex SEX, not homosexuality in general. On the contrary, Corinthians makes it very clear that gay people won't be going to heaven.
Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
"Men with men" equates to a "depraved mind" in this passage. My opponent very specifically mentioned Romans as an example of a prohibition on "pagan idolatrous sex acts." However, as we can clearly see from this passage, God is condemning homosexuals as "depraved" and "unnatural." I repeat, no mention of paganism is given.
While it may be true that in some parts the Bible equates homosexuality with paganism, this does not mean that it does not condemn homosexuality in general. In fact, the fact that the Bible may equate them only strengthens the view that homosexuality is evil according to the Abrahamic God. Paganism was such a serious sin that even being associated with it is a moral evil.
I look forward to hearing my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 1
blackliger777

Pro

Hello, I will answer this in parts.

Even if those were 100% accurate translations (they are not) of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, you have taken them out of their Scriptural and cultural context.

So, let"s put them back, and have a look"

Because they are basically repeating, I will just deal with the non murderous verse Leviticus 18:22.

That chapter starts off with God telling Moses to tell the Israelites to "not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices."

It then goes on listing many various incestual restrictions, and then it tells not to have sex with a woman when she is having her period, then it tells not to have sex with your neighbors wife.

Then it takes a completely different turn, and tells not to give any of your children to be sacrificed to the Pagan god Molek.

After that, the restrictions of a mankind with mankind and sex with animals come in.

The reason for that is because back then in the culture God was referring to, the Pagans would start off their fertility ritual with a child sacrifice. What would follow was an orgy, where the women, but most of all the men, would have sex with anything and anybody. But they were very careful to do it in a way that would not impregnate anyone, that was only for the woman they were married to. So, they would have sex with animals and anal sex with Galli priests, and temple prostitutes.

They fully believed that what they were doing pleased their gods and goddesses. They believed that it would bring all forms of fertility to them and their land, but they were not homosexuals sexuality expressing their love and attraction for one another, the vast majority of them were not even homosexuals.

However, if you chose to ignore all of that, it is a fact that those two verses were only referring to men, and that means they could not refer to any and all homosexual sex for any reason.

One must factor in the cultural and Scriptural context. The Jews of that time, and in that culture did not know that a woman had a egg. They thought the the man's seed was like the seed of a plant, and the woman was (Like an incubator) just to be implanted with their seed. They also held increasing their numbers to the utmost importance. There are a few reasons for that, but the most crucial, was because they wanted to make their religion more dominant.

So, their reasons were based on their biological ignorance, and for the most part selfishness.

Given their belief they viewed any use of a man's seed other than for the attempt at procreation to be anything from uncleanliness, all the way up to murder.

Given this, it's not surprising that that would have an issue with a man having sex for any reason other than to procreate. However, if you take all of that into consideration, and the fact that they were coming into contact with cultures that embraced things like pederasty, and Pagan fertility orgies. It would be no surprise to see a lot of parts in the Old Testament (Torah) that strictly forbade men having any kind of sex other than sex to procreate.

But, in fact there are only 2 out of 23,145 verses in the Old Testament (Torah) that some state have to do with it directly forbidding men having sex with men. And, as I have pointed out, it is clearly backed up by the Scriptural and cultural context, that it was not any and all homosexual sex that was being condemned.

To state that there is no mention of Paganism, when in context there clearly is, is being dishonest at best.

PS. I forgot to add this regarding Leviticus chapter 20...

If the focus of that murderous chapter was not surrounding Pagan idolatry, why would it start off with this?...

(Leviticus 20:1-5)

The Lord said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: "Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.
shatteredseren

Con

shatteredseren forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
blackliger777

Pro

With Romans:26-28 it is actually right there in the context of the scriptures that Paul was not referring to homosexuals. I think you would agree that just because someone engages in homosexual sex does not mean they are a hoimosexual.

Here is the context...

"Because of this, God gave them over"

Because of what? Here is what...

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

Now that is not Paul reffering to homosexuals, those people were Pagans engaging in idolatrous sex orgies.

Again...

The reason for that is because back then in the culture Paul was referring to, the Pagans would occasionally start off their fertility ritual with a child sacrifice. What would follow was an orgy, where the women, but most of all the men, would have sex with anything and anybody. But they were very careful to do it in a way that would not impregnate anyone, that was only for the woman they were married to. So, they would have sex with animals and anal sex with Galli priests, and temple prostitutes.

They fully believed that what they were doing pleased their gods and goddesses. They believed that it would bring all forms of fertility to them and their land, but they were not homosexuals sexuality expressing their love and attraction for one another, the vast majority of them were not even homosexuals.

The fact is that there was never any Greek or Hebrew words that were used in refrance to homosexuality used anywhere in the Scriptures, and there were words that would have left to question as to what the writer was reffering to. It is humans that have been equating aspects of Paganism with homosexuality, not the writers of the Scriptures or God. This is nothing new, things like this have been going on for as long as the Scriptures have existed.
shatteredseren

Con

shatteredseren forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
shatteredseren

Con

shatteredseren forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
shatteredseren

Con

shatteredseren forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Longline 11 months ago
Longline
Don't just write down bunch of stuff without telling people where you are getting it from. Or not even showing how it proves your point.
Posted by QuestioningAuthority 11 months ago
QuestioningAuthority
He has not brought up this "He who is without sin shall cast the first stone" "When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, "Where are your accusers? Didn"t even one of them condemn you?"

"No, Lord," she said.

And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."
Posted by Longline 11 months ago
Longline
Pro with all your talk, why not show where or how those people were not homosexual? And how do you define homosexual?
Posted by blackliger777 11 months ago
blackliger777
Time's almost up con
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 11 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
http://www.gotquestions.org...

"As Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus had the right, power, and authority to dispense it in any way He pleased, even to the abolishing of it and reinstituting it as the Lord"s Day, a day of worship. Since the Lord of the Sabbath had come, He who is the only true "Sabbath rest" made the old law of the Sabbath no longer needed or binding. When He said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), Jesus was attesting to the fact that, just as the Sabbath day was originally instituted to give man rest from his labors, so did He come to provide us rest from laboring to achieve our own salvation by our works. Because of His sacrifice on the cross, we can now forever cease laboring to attain God"s favor and rest in His mercy and grace."
Posted by Quadrunner 11 months ago
Quadrunner
@Matt Not Sundays, the Sabbath which is on the 7th day of rest, set aside for God. I've heard but not verified that pagan influence from the Roman Empire seeping into Christianity has to do with any sun that is not mentioned in scripture, like Sunday worship, and the little sun crown around Jesus.
Posted by AlaynaSchippert 11 months ago
AlaynaSchippert
@shatteredseren bring up in the Bible where the angles went to Lots house and the men surrounded the house and asked to sleep with the men in the house. (God thought this was such an evil city he destroyed it) ps. since your opponent is technically saying the Bible is a reliable sours by refuting it, you could say how he is debating a known fact. Hope you win.
Posted by matt8800 11 months ago
matt8800
Don't forget about killing people for working on Sundays!!
Posted by Penguinlover12 12 months ago
Penguinlover12
Finally i'm not the only one who knows that it says It's a sin in the bible.!!!!
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