The Instigator
blackliger777
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ViceRegent
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

homosexuality is not a sin

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ViceRegent
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/7/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 603 times Debate No: 87781
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (40)
Votes (1)

 

blackliger777

Pro

Hello, homosexuality and same sex marriage is not condemned and here's why.

These are not 100% accurate translations of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, they've been taken them out of their Scriptural and cultural context.

So, let"s put them back, and have a look"

Because they are basically repeating, I will just deal with the non murderous verse Leviticus 18:22.

That chapter starts off with God telling Moses to tell the Israelites to "not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices."

It then goes on listing many various incestual restrictions, and then it tells not to have sex with a woman when she is having her period, then it tells not to have sex with your neighbors wife.

Then it takes a completely different turn, and tells not to give any of your children to be sacrificed to the Pagan god Molek.

After that, the restrictions of a mankind with mankind and sex with animals come in.

The reason for that is because back then in the culture God was referring to, the Pagans would start off their fertility ritual with a child sacrifice. What would follow was an orgy, where the women, but most of all the men, would have sex with anything and anybody. But they were very careful to do it in a way that would not impregnate anyone, that was only for the woman they were married to. So, they would have sex with animals and anal sex with Galli priests, and temple prostitutes.

They fully believed that what they were doing pleased their gods and goddesses. They believed that it would bring all forms of fertility to them and their land, but they were not homosexuals sexuality expressing their love and attraction for one another, the vast majority of them were not even homosexuals.

However, if you chose to ignore all of that, it is a fact that those two verses were only referring to men, and that means they could not refer to any and all homosexual sex for any reason.

One must factor in the cultural and Scriptural context. The Jews of that time, and in that culture did not know that a woman had a egg. They thought the the man's seed was like the seed of a plant, and the woman was (Like an incubator) just to be implanted with their seed. They also held increasing their numbers to the utmost importance. There are a few reasons for that, but the most crucial, was because they wanted to make their religion more dominant.

So, their reasons were based on their biological ignorance, and for the most part selfishness.

Given their belief they viewed any use of a man's seed other than for the attempt at procreation to be anything from uncleanliness, all the way up to murder.

Given this, it's not surprising that that would have an issue with a man having sex for any reason other than to procreate. However, if you take all of that into consideration, and the fact that they were coming into contact with cultures that embraced things like pederasty, and Pagan fertility orgies. It would be no surprise to see a lot of parts in the Old Testament (Torah) that strictly forbade men having any kind of sex other than sex to procreate.

But, in fact there are only 2 out of 23,145 verses in the Old Testament (Torah) that some state have to do with it directly forbidding men having sex with men. And, as I have pointed out, it is clearly backed up by the Scriptural and cultural context, that it was not any and all homosexual sex that was being condemned.

It is paganism.

I forgot to add this regarding Leviticus chapter 20...

If the focus of that murderous chapter was not surrounding Pagan idolatry, why would it start off with this?...

(Leviticus 20:1-5)

The Lord said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: "Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.A279;

With Romans:26-28 it is actually right there in the context of the scriptures that Paul was not referring to homosexuals. I think you would agree that just because someone engages in homosexual sex does not mean they are a hoimosexual.

Here is the context...

"Because of this, God gave them over"

Because of what? Here is what...

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

Now that is not Paul reffering to homosexuals, those people were Pagans engaging in idolatrous sex orgies.

Again...

The reason for that is because back then in the culture Paul was referring to, the Pagans would occasionally start off their fertility ritual with a child sacrifice. What would follow was an orgy, where the women, but most of all the men, would have sex with anything and anybody. But they were very careful to do it in a way that would not impregnate anyone, that was only for the woman they were married to. So, they would have sex with animals and anal sex with Galli priests, and temple prostitutes.

They fully believed that what they were doing pleased their gods and goddesses. They believed that it would bring all forms of fertility to them and their land, but they were not homosexuals sexuality expressing their love and attraction for one another, the vast majority of them were not even homosexuals.

The fact is that there was never any Greek or Hebrew words that were used in refrance to homosexuality used anywhere in the Scriptures, and there were words that would have left to question as to what the writer was reffering to. It is humans that have been equating aspects of Paganism with homosexuality, not the writers of the Scriptures or God. This is nothing new, things like this have been going on for as long as the Scriptures have existed.

(Let's hope I can get a decent opponent this time)
ViceRegent

Con

So, we know that a sin is the violating of any law within the Torah per I John 3:4. This fool admits that the Torah proscribes sodomy. Therefore, sodomy is a sin. Debate over. He loses.
Debate Round No. 1
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
blackliger777

Pro

blackliger777 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by imjustsomeopinion 1 day ago
imjustsomeopinion
@ 183078- no, being gay is not a decision it is caused by epi-marks which protect fathers and mothers from excess or underexposure to testosterone when they carry over to opposite-sex offspring, it can cause the masculinization of females or the feminization of males, which can lead to a child becoming gay. People do not choose to be gay, they are born that way.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Valkrin// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments), 1 point to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con for the numerous forfeits, but Con's argument is very insufficient and fails to go beyond what Pro already covered and said needed to be analyzed in context. He then proceeds to spam "I win" over and over again. Given this, my arguments go to Pro.

[*Reason for removal*] Full forfeit debates are usually not moderated, excepting cases where large amounts of arguments are made in the opening round, as is the case here. The voter clearly recognizes that, but is required to still examine the arguments given to explain why Pro is winning the debate rather than just explaining why Con's point fell short.
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Posted by 183078 8 months ago
183078
being gay IS a desision . if you are gay you make your self gay, henceforth it is a sin
Posted by Kalleth 8 months ago
Kalleth
XD "Let's hope I get a decent opponent this time."

VR joins debate.

"Shite."
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
It has been a pleasure discussing with you WhineyMagiciann5, must go now, lots of people to reach. I'll say hey fro time to time when I see you on ther debates. Be well, I hope you will choose to seek for yourself. Say hey when you see me on the debate boards.

Bye
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
WhineyMagiciann5, well we're getting somewhere at any rate. The Old Testament is ALWAYS valid, I didn't say it was invalid I said it does not impact the believers of today! That is to say .... it's like US History, it tells us about ourselves, but we are under new management in government. Likewise, in Christendom, we too are under new management or in this case under a New Covenant of God. We are now through Christ who restores us to a right relationship with God the Father.
now back to your responses.
The DNA ..... it is the very complexity of the strand that IS the point! Not chance. We (humankind) even with all the advancement of science up to this very day, Still are not intelligent ENOUGH to understand the DNA.
Now stop and think for a minute ..... science is NOT going to go to Hell for choosing not to investigate or explore the possibility of the existence of God. But to suggest that it is either rational or even reasonable to just assume there is NOT is ..... throwing the baby out with the bath water!

What I'm saying is you DON'T WAIT for Science to tell you what to believe or not believe on THIS ONE!. This one's ON YOU just as it is on every soul on earth, each has got to get it right and they have till they DIE to figure it out. Unfortunately most will not make it, they will appear before God and have to answer for the deeds the did while alive on earth, every wrong word, every hateful act. The I didn't know you existed is not going to be relevant ...... He (God ) says to you exactly this ..... I showed you my existence IN creation the proof was everywhere you looked, always right in front of YOUR eyes, but instead of seeing me, and coming to me? You gave credit to the created instead of the creator.

God requires you and all other people to PROVE Him yourself, it is not our (a believers responsibility) to prove anything to another soul. We plant the seed, another waters the seed, and yet another harvest it for the Kingdom
Posted by WhineyMagiciann5 8 months ago
WhineyMagiciann5
On your points of dna.
1. I know what dna is, Deoxy. Ribo. Nucleaic acid
2. Dna can be mapped to an extent.
3. We cant create DNA as we cannot entirely map it. To small to work with. And this does not automatically point to intelligent design
4. Science hasnt attempted to answer the god question because
A. They want to spend their time on the world directly around them first
B. God is an unfalsiable paradox. Meaning with current knowledge, cannot be proven true or false
5. Science used to atribute many things to an unknown power. Till they realized that not everything needs design and there is a thing called CHANCE.
Posted by WhineyMagiciann5 8 months ago
WhineyMagiciann5
So you say that the old testiment isn't valid, why is that so? I hope you do realize that i Intentionally chose from the old testament. Shouldnt the old testament be just as valid as the new testament cause after all, it is the word of your god.
Next you take quite the leap saying that the entire history of the world is in the books. So that means you have yo prove creationism, yound earth theory,
NEXT
"6. God takes EVERY bad thing and I MEAN every Bad thing that happens to a follower of God and at its end, makes it a Blessing that is plainly visible to the believer themselves. That it happens EVERYTIME negates coincidence entirely!"
Unless you mean heaven i could let this slide, but i dont believe you did considering you mention it as a blessing and coincidence.
My aunt was a very devout christian, very serious about her faith.
Yet she was terminally ill, her kid died at the age of three, her husband left her.
She then died in a car wreck. This all happened in less than 6 months. We kept close watch on her and sadly i do not see any BLESSINGS from these events. Does that mean god didn' care, or "she wasnt christian enough?
And does that mean an atheist get totally ignored? In this scenario. I had somone who was very close to me and an atheist. She had a heart condition since she was five and had a constant pain. So by your logic, she gots nothing while a christian who lets just say gets cheated out on a math test. God would just ignore the innocent girl in pain and help the christian? Cont...
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
I'll be waiting!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
9. God defends you, protects you, comforts you, gives you the answer to your questions, about Life, love, marriage, money, politics, death, sex, friendships, governments, and the end of the world, how it's going to happen, who it will effect and makes you an absolute believer that YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE HERE when it comes.
is that enough I can keep going but I'd prefer to answer specific questions you might have.

The biggest proof that is real and right before your eyes. is to stop talking with me for a moment .... go into the internet and type in What IS DNA .... read what it is, what it shows, how it works .... don't read anything about what they THINK, just what DNA actually IS. go several places, reading scientist after scientist .... not just from Believer scientist, just plain scientist, those who show an honest interest to UNDERSTAND what DNA actually is .... not from a standpoint of an evolutionist, neither a Christian view.

After you look at the Data alone, consider it's implications apart from set speculation the world wants you to Think. And just ask yourself:
1. Does DNA truly suggest a randomness in its construct?
2 Does DNA demonstrate a precision mathematical construct, able to be mapped by scientist.
3.Why can't the most brilliant minds duplicate one from scratch .... and does this fact suggest a intelligence, that is at present unknown to science.
4. Why has science NOT attempted to prove or Disprove Gods existence, by now! rather than simply ignore the greatest question of science today? For what purpose and to what end?
5. IF they DON'T know where it comes from and they don't .... What possible reason would be served to NOT at the very least consider that an external intelligence is involved, why IS there a NEED for science to go straight from accident to evolution without the slightest consideration of an external intellect?

same applies to the Atom, its mathematical, it defies full explanation by all quantum physicist
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 8 months ago
dsjpk5
blackliger777ViceRegentTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con.