The Instigator
1adam
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MrJosh
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

how did Jesus describe himself in bible?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MrJosh
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/30/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,776 times Debate No: 35185
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

1adam

Con

Jesus says in bible he is not a god
"John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus says we worship so he is not a god and he worship the real god
MrJosh

Pro

I accept this debate, and thank Con for the opportunity. I hope we can both have fun. :)

Unfortunately, Con's exact topic for the debate is unclear, as is his position, so I will do my best with what I have.

Con's opening line is: "Jesus says in bible he is not a god"

He then goes on to state that: "...so he is not a god..."

It is my best guess that Con is claiming the Jesus of the Christian bible to not be a god, so I will take the position that the same character is indeed portrayed as a god.

From the following passages, it is clear that Jesus is more than a simple human:
"I and the Father are one"-John 10:30
"All that belongs to the Father is mine."-John 16:15

The following scriptures in the Christian bible show Jesus performing superhuman feats:
Healing a blind mute-Matthew 12:22
Walking on water- Mark 6:48

The following passage clearly show that the bible recognizes more gods than the one called "the Father" by the author of John:
"...I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt."-Exodus 12:12
"...the Lord had brought judgment on their gods."-Numbers 33:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers..."-2 Corinthians 4:4

It is quite clear that the Christian bible recognizes more than one god. It is also clear that Jesus is more than a simple man. In Mark 2:10 he clearly states that he is authorized to forgive sins. It cannot be doubted that the Jesus of the bible is portrayed as a god; perhaps a subordinate god to "the Father," but no doubt he is a god.

I look forward to Con's response.

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Notes:
I have used the New International Version (NIV) for no reason other than that it was convenient.
Debate Round No. 1
1adam

Con

Jesus says in bible he is not a god
"John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus says we worship so he is not a god and he worship the real god
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
hello Mr josh
How are you?
first I am sure humankind on earth for short time in a quiz who pass this quiz will live forever in heaven with our creator and who fail in this quiz will live forever in bad situation so I am in this site to know the correct way to our great creator.
want to say to you my referance is king James bible because I noticed that there are bad action in niv to hide the truth for example
John 12:44 from (king James)
Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
john12-44 from( niv)
Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.
as you see in king James Jesus say( He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me).and in niv it increase the word (only) to twist what Jesus said
so can we use king James .
and as you see this is anther evidence that Jesus not god Jesus say Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me
I noticed you do not answer my question when I posted this
"John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus say we worship so he not a god and he worship the true god
and you wrote
"I and the Father are one"-John 10:30
"All that belongs to the Father is mine."-John 16:15
this is not evidence that Jesus is god because Jesus in bible talk with metaphor for example
john10_
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
As you see Jesus say my sheep and he does not mean an animal but he he mean who believe in him because this is metaphor talking also when he say I and the father are one this not mean he is god he mean his talking from god
MrJosh

Pro

I would like to first thank CON for inquiring into my personal well-being. I am fine, although a bit tired. Work, school, maintaining a home and raising a family keeps one busy. How are you?

Secondly, I would like to thank CON for his second round arguments. You have written quite a bit. I will not be able to address every single point; instead, I will address what I see as the overall theme.

You make a good case that Jesus is not the same being as the God referred to as "the Father" in the Book of John (10:30, 16:15). I do not dispute this. I do not claim that the Jesus of the Christian Bible is the same entity as "the Father," nor do I claim that they are both part of some sort of triune deity. As I noted in the first round, what I am claiming is that the Jesus character is portrayed as A god, not THE God.

In the first round I noted examples of the bible recognizing other gods. I also showed that Jesus was clearly not a simple man. I would now like to add to this list:
"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."-Mark 16:19

If the bible recognizes lesser gods, and Jesus performed superhuman feats, is authorized to forgive sins, and is sitting at the right hand of the Supreme God, surely he qualifies as a lesser deity.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
I have used the King James Version (KJV) for for purposes of continuity, as it is the version CON used.
Debate Round No. 2
1adam

Con

Thanks mrjosh for your asking I am fine and when you said you are bit tired I remind you we are in the most important quiz on earth and who pass this quiz will be in heaven wherever no tired ,no fear, no sadness but health and happiness
Secondly you said (If the bible recognizes lesser gods, and Jesus performed superhuman feats, is authorized to forgive sins, and is sitting at the right hand of the Supreme God, surely he qualifies as a lesser deity.)
When you said (surely he qualifies a lesser deity) this is your Conclusion not Jesus talking
Can we talk from Jesus words not from my conclusion nor yours
Let Jesus talk about himself
John 12:44
Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
we believe in one which sent Jesus not Jesus
Mark14:32

32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, "Sit here while I pray
"John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
2-jesus and us do the same thing worship the same one
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise

3-jesus cannot do anything from himself
John 17:3
and this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4-jesus say the god only one and this god sent Jesus
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
5-we and Jesus has the same god
John 4:19

The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

John 4:44
For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
John 6:14
Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
Mark6:4
But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
6-from all this verses Jesus is a profit
__________________________________________________
Finally
1- We believe in one which sent Jesus not Jesus
2-jesus and us do the same thing worship the same one
3-jesus cannot do anything from himself
4-jesus say the god only one and this god sent Jesus
5-we and Jesus has the same god
6-from all this Jesus is a profit
MrJosh

Pro

Thank you for your words of encouragement; even if I disagree with your beliefs, I appreciate your kind thoughts. On to the debate!

CON has not objected to any of my points; his only counterpoint is that the words did not come from Jesus. To this point, I offer the following:

P1 All scripture comes from God (2 Timothy 3:16)
P2 Jesus and God are of one mind (John 10:30)
C Everything in the bible is as good as the word of Jesus

Therefore, everything I mentioned in the earlier rounds of this debate, to which CON did not object, is as good as the word of Christ.

I feel I have successfully shown that Jesus can be considered a god, although a lesser god than the Father, and that since the bible is as good as the word of Jesus himself, he has essentially claimed his own godhood.

I would like to thank CON for setting up this debate. I have had a good time, and I hope CON has as well.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
I can never accept that Jesus is God, for a start if He was God then he wouldn't need be God's son.

How people can wrap their head around this logic is beyond me forever.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 3 years ago
Ore_Ele
1adamMrJoshTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I was tempted to give Pro the conduct, since the OP did not clearly state what was to be debated. However, I felt that Pro adjusted to it well enough that while it wasn't clear to me, it was clear enough to him. I believe spelling and grammar is clear, but if needed, I can explain in greater detail. For the arguments, Con asserted that Jesus talks in metaphors, and could be using the "I and God are one and the same" as a metaphor, however, this assertion was never backed up. Con also quoted a lot of scripture without stating why it was relevant to his case. It would be wise to not assume that the voters will completely follow the links. It is better to over explain, than to under.