The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
cody30228
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points

how does outsourcing create more jobs and work for our economy?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,284 times Debate No: 1337
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (7)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Con

i often hear that offsourcing creates more jobs here in the long run, and just as good if not better jobs.
i would like a rational for this claim.

i oppose the claim. i contend that if any jobs are created, they would be beans paying jobs. if Joe A has a job for twenty five dollars, and his job is outsourced, the company who outsourced him will be expending a few dollars an hour at a nonUS country. granted, reinvestment will occur from the savings, and more jobs will be created. first of all though, how do we know how many jobs? if it's just one for one jobs created, then the rich will simply get richer and the poor poorer, as reflected by our dwindling middle class and our growing service economy.
but even if two jobs were created at like six dollars each, instead of one at 25, the oeverall affect is that much of our wealth has been put somewhere else. if we assume one pie, then we're spreading it thin.
we couldn't certainly get a 26 dollar job if there's one pie and the 25 one is outsourced.

a race to the bottom will ensue with outsourcing. http://en.wikipedia.org...
cody30228

Pro

Ok, when you say outsourcing, you do realize that outsourcing is not specific to US to foreign countries.

This is how the American Heritage Dictionary describes outsourcing:
"To send out (work, for example) to an outside provider or manufacturer in order to cut costs. "

So this is a real example of outsourcing

Car Company A makes all parts of the car
they have 10 workers and 0 open slots

Tire Company B makes tires
they have 3 workers
C gets no bussiness because A and B both makes tires

So if A outsources to B
Car Company A makes body
they have 5 workers
they have 5 open slots

Tire Company B makes tires
they have 7 workers

Then, Car Company A can hire 5 more workers thus creating more jobs

Now this is simplistic but the point is made

If you want money involved, we all know that companies make more money with outsourcing. So if a company has more money, they can
a) afford to hire more people
b) create new locations and ultimately hire more people
c) give more money to current workers

the company that is outsourced to gets
a) more workers so more money
b) more services available to more jobs
c) afford to hire more people
d) empty job slots need to be filled

That is why outsourcing makes jobs...at least Domestically.

If you are referring to outsourcing in foreign countries only, that is called off shoring.

Now off shoring has the same effects on a world-wide scale of job increasing.

I'm further assuming that you are claiming that US jobs are not being made by off shoring. If this is what you are arguing:
1. USA companies make more money
2. more money equals more jobs
3. empty job slots leads to need for hire

Please clarify in what you REALLY want to be debating, out sourcing, off shoring, or US jobs in off shoring

Thanks
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Con

a few initial points...
that i was refering to outsourcing to non-US countries was clear by my reference to "non-US countries".
the extent to which you responded to my arguments in that regard is below.

"I'm further assuming that you are claiming that US jobs are not being made by off shoring. If this is what you are arguing:
1. USA companies make more money
2. more money equals more jobs
3. empty job slots leads to need for hire"

you did not address my points that.... when they outsource, they necessarily put some of the US wealth in another country. now, at best, they go from instead of hiring a dude for 25 to two dudes hiring at 7 and 7, for example, with other wealth no longer here. by defiition, our middle class would be shrinking and the service economy would spring up. both are occurring here and now.. makes you wonder doesn't it.

now your claim, that some of the outsourced jobs are simply jobs that weren't filled here. that could surely be the case, sometimes. i'm sure it is. but what about those manufacturing jobs that are lost? how is that good for our economy? the only way it could be good is for helping decrease unemployment, but our employment isn't that high.
cody30228

Pro

You only specified non-US companies in one line, in an example. So not you did not clearly specify anything.

So this debate should so off-shoring
Ok well off-shoring still
1. Creates more jobs in other countries
2. Spreads wealth to other countries
So it helps other countries economy. This can increase in trade between the two countries. And trade is good for out economy.

The effects on America I mentioned still stand.
1. Companies makes more money
2. Companies can afford to hire more workers
3. Companies have openings where they need to hire more workers.

In manufacturing, they would most definitely need to hire ore workers, thus lowering un-employment.

This is your main point
"when they outsource, they necessarily put some of the US wealth in another country. now, at best, they go from instead of hiring a dude for 25 to two dudes hiring at 7 and 7, for example, with other wealth no longer here. by defiition, our middle class would be shrinking and the service economy would spring up"
Here is where you are wrong "wealth no longer here"
With your example, a company gets double productivity and saves 11 dollars an hour. Our companies would obviously become better. And off-shoring is not only service sector. It is any type of work. You ignored my example of the car and tire companies. So the manufacturing sector gains the same effects.

So we all agree then that companies make more money and can hire more people. So I assume we are debating if this is good.

"the only way it could be good is for helping decrease unemployment, but our employment isn't that high."

I guess you mean to say that if off shoring increases employment, than why is out employment so low?
Well I can answer that:
compare un-employment from before to now
http://www.econedlink.org...
this site has many graphs showing that more and more American's are becoming employed. So the problem is being fixed by off-shoring

I would like you to give me a reason why off-shoring is bad to counter my many reasons why it is good.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Con

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
cody30228

Pro

Here is why I should win
You only specified non-US companies in one line, in an example. So not you did not clearly specify anything.

Ok well off-shoring still
1. Creates more jobs in other countries
2. Spreads wealth to other countries
So it helps other countries economy. This can increase in trade between the two countries. And trade is good for out economy.

The effects on America I mentioned still stand.
1. Companies makes more money
2. Companies can afford to hire more workers
3. Companies have openings where they need to hire more workers.

"I would like you to give me a reason why off-shoring is bad to counter my many reasons why it is good."
She did not

So off shoring, outsourcing, is good.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by bfl9000 9 years ago
bfl9000
It seems to be a much smaller jump to state that 'outsourcing works for our economy,' than to state 'outsourcing creates more jobs.'

The relationship between outsourcing and job creation isn't direct, and depends on many factors, yet outsourcing does directly improve, or 'work for' the economy in that global competition for the most efficient and cost effective means of production of goods and services leads to, and has led to, dramatic improvements in the quality of life of U.S. consumers over recent history. Erecting artificial barriers to foreign trade and employment through populist driven methods such as legislation or protectionism shields the U.S. market from global competition, and reduces the constantly increasing quality of life of all market participants, U.S. citizens most of all.
Posted by cody30228 9 years ago
cody30228
ignore line
" C gets no business because A and B both make tires"
i deleted an example and did not delete this line
Posted by mcalvey187 9 years ago
mcalvey187
That introductory statement was terrible...
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Yeah it doesn't. Cheaper goods higher profits... no additional jobs. There's some to sell the products but those jobs existed when the products were here. Yeah. Not much of an argument.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by YummyYummCupcake 9 years ago
YummyYummCupcake
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Gao 9 years ago
Gao
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
solo
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by cody30228 9 years ago
cody30228
dairygirl4u2ccody30228Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03