The Instigator
cxman123
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DarthKirones
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points

hulk is better than the silver surfer/others with the power cosmic

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
DarthKirones
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2016 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 396 times Debate No: 86063
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

cxman123

Con

the first round is acceptance and proposing other rules or regulations
the current rules are:
- no swearing
- all resources must be canon
- no D.C. crossovers
- no cinematic universe
DarthKirones

Pro

I accept.

To add ideas to the rules:
- The only universe that may be used should be Earth-616.
- No semantics, trolling or insults.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
cxman123

Con

Firstly I would like to clarify the definition of "better" for it can mean many different things, for example better could mean: stronger, more powerful (which comes with its own host of problems), or has won more battles. In this debate I would like to define better as the more achievements like battles or feats of strength, intelligence, or speed.
Now since that has been clarified I will state my first point. my first point is bruce banner, sure he is smart I guess but he is a half of the hulk that can't be taken away he is weak and useless and is always trying to keep the powerful hulk at bay. here is an example the planet hulk/the world war hulk's in those bruce and the hulk agreed to work together but why has this never been used anywhere else? survival without working together they could have died proving that on earth were they do not do that the hulk is weaker than when he was on Sakaar even when he was king of the planet and happy with his wife and child on the way he is still stronger than the hulk could be. So the silver surfer might not beat the planet hulk version but hulk at any other time in marvel the hulk would easily loose to the power cosmic. (I am sorry for the short paragraph it is late and I forgot about it and I had fifteen minutes to finish this)
DarthKirones

Pro

Introduction:


Hi DDO. Before we continue, I would like to address my opponent on the definition of better.


“Firstly I would like to clarify the definition of ‘better’ for it can mean many different things, for example better could mean: stronger, more powerful (which comes with its own host of problems), or has won more battles. In this debate I would like to define better as the more achievements like battles or feats of strength, intelligence, or speed.”


In my personal opinion, this definition is very flawed, as winning more “battles” or feats of “strength” does not necessarily make a character or a human better. For example, Squirrel Girl, a Marvel character has beaten Wolverine, Deadpool and Doctor Doom {1} in battle. That does not make Squirrel Girl better, now does it?


I will also be bolding key parts of my opponents arguments in my rebuttal.


Rebuttals:


“my first point is bruce banner, sure he is smart I guess but he is a half of the hulk that can't be taken away he is weak and useless


No… Just… No.


Bruce Banner is not only smart, he is listed as one of the eight smartest people in the marvel universe. It is listed that he has “Super Genius” intelligence, putting him on par with Tony Stark, Reed Richards and the Black Panther. {2}


Bruce Banner is also the inventor of many powerful gadgets, which include but are not limited to:

  • A Gamma/Old Power shield that can protect him from attacks done by the Juggernaut and Skaar (The Hulk’s son.) who are both class 100 strength characters. He can also use this as an offensive weapon that will increase his strength temporarily so he could redirect the attack.

  • A taser powered by the Old Power, which has to be measured using the RICHTER scale.

  • A teleporter {2}


So no, he is not useless.


“here is an example the planet hulk/the world war hulk's in those bruce and the hulk agreed to work together but why has this never been used anywhere else?”


As someone who has READ both of those, no, it was the Hulk in control for the entirety of the time on Sakaar and during his conquest of Manhattan (Except for a very brief period of struggle between the Hulk and Banner for control of the body.)


“survival without working together they could have died proving that on earth were they do not do that the hulk is weaker than when he was on Sakaar even when he was king of the planet and happy with his wife and child on the way he is still stronger than the hulk could be. “


I will just assume you are referring to the Silver Surfer when you say “he”, anyways…


As proven just before, Bruce Banner and the Hulk did NOT work together despite my opponent's weak claims. That must mean that the Hulk survived without Banner’s help.


My opponent also makes a mistake, by trying to make a connection between the location of the Hulk and his strength. Instead, the Hulk’s strength is connected to A) What personality of the Hulk is in control (i.e World-Breaker, Joe Fixit, etc.) B) How angry he is. I also don’t think that this point really goes against the Hulk.


Finally, my opponent makes no attempt to explain if the Silver Surfer is stronger, instead he just flatly says that the Silver Surfer is stronger, giving NO evidence to prove it.


So the silver surfer might not beat the planet hulk version but hulk at any other time in marvel the hulk would easily loose to the power cosmic.


Again, my opponent makes a claim with no factual basis, simply saying that the Silver Surfer (and other individuals with the Power Cosmic would beat the Hulk.


Also, he even ADMITS that the Hulk may win in his World-Breaker Personality. Ladies and Gentlemen, that sounds like a dropped argument to me.


That is all for now.


DarthKirones.


Sources:


{1}http://marvel.wikia.com...

{2}http://marvel.wikia.com...

Debate Round No. 2
cxman123

Con

Rebuttal:
First of all I would like to state that by he I meant the hulk in his world breaker personality and implied that the hulk was weaker than the silver surfer and others with the power cosmic when he is on earth in any other comic that planet hulk, world war hulk, and world war hulk x-men.
Second of all I would like to state that were my information was from was world war hulk - the complete story by comicstration a person who makes his living by anylizing these comics. Which would get a much more in depth knowledge about the comic that a casual reader like yourself. So your point about the hulk being in control entirely for the duration of the entire trilogy is completely nullified.
Point:
Now it is time to state my point, my point is the limitless power of the power cosmic. Now if you were to recerch the properties of infinity like I have you would know that no matter how little of a percent of infinity you were to take for yourself you would also have infinite power yourself so I will simplify it for you half of infinity is infinity so a quarter of infinity is infinity so on and so forth. So that if the power cosmic is truly limitless like so many comics state. The silver surfer would have infinite power himself and the same is true for all others with the power cosmic.
Resolution:
Because of the properties of infinity anyone with the power cosmic would have unlimited power and therefore would have at his fingertips what the hulk would take hours to get even half as powerful. But whait climbing at even a extremely fast rate getting to infinity would take literally forever.
And that darth is why the silver surfer is (literally infinity) better.
DarthKirones

Pro



Introduction:


I would like to thank my opponent for posting.


Rebuttals:


“First of all I would like to state that by he I meant the hulk in his world breaker personality and implied that the hulk was weaker than the silver surfer and others with the power cosmic when he is on earth in any other comic that planet hulk, world war hulk, and world war hulk x-men.”


Thank you for the clarification. I still disagree, as there is no connection between the Hulk’s location, but rather his rage and his personality. My opponent has still not stated how the location affects the strength and power of the Hulk.


“Second of all I would like to state that were my information was from was world war hulk - the complete story by comicstration a person who makes his living by anylizing these comics. Which would get a much more in depth knowledge about the comic that a casual reader like yourself. So your point about the hulk being in control entirely for the duration of the entire trilogy is completely nullified.


I have a lot of things to say about this.


After a quick google search I am assuming that my opponent was referring to the YouTube account “Comicstorian”. His review is very good and in depth, (I would recommend that you watch it if you are unfamiliar with World War Hulk and you don’t want to buy the comics.)


I am also going under the presumption that this directed towards my second-to-last rebuttal, but I will say this. Comicstorian never ONCE said that the Hulk and Banner cooperated. In fact, during the entire Planet Hulk/World War Hulk saga, Banner appeared FIVE times, one of those times was in government captivity. The other four times was due to exhaustion, his wife’s urging, and a struggle for control of the body. {1} {2} {3}


My opponent also states “Which would get a much more in depth knowledge about the comic that a casual reader like yourself.” My opponent makes an appeal to authority, in the sense that he interprets Comicstorian as an authority on Comic who is always correct. Well, with all due respect to Comicstorian, he is not an authority on comics, but rather a man who discusses them on YouTube. Just because he earns money by this does NOT make his opinion better. Pop music artists like Justin Bieber have cults of million teenage girls, yet that does not make his music good, now does it? I have read World War Hulk several times, and I believe I am quite qualified to make a judgement based on it. So no, I may be a “casual”, but I know a thing or two about comics.


Finally, my opponent says that my point is nullified, yet I have shown that his source, Comicstorian never said some of things he used in his arguments, and that he never even bothered refuting my rebuttal.


my point is the limitless power of the power cosmic. Now if you were to recerch the properties of infinity like I have you would know that no matter how little of a percent of infinity you were to take for yourself you would also have infinite power yourself so I will simplify it for you half of infinity is infinity so a quarter of infinity is infinity so on and so forth. So that if the power cosmic is truly limitless like so many comics state. The silver surfer would have infinite power himself and the same is true for all others with the power cosmic.


Yeah… I am aware of that.


Yet what I don’t understand is that my opponent forgets that the Hulk ALSO has unlimited power.


“...While in an enraged state, adrenaline surges through the Hulk's body, magnifying his extraordinary strength drastically beyond his standard limits. The Hulk's immeasurable strength is directly proportional to his level of rage, excitement, and stress.


Finally, as Amadeus Cho theorizes, Banner subconsciously restrains the Hulk's maximum potential because he quantifies and calculates the external variables so that the Hulk could never hurt someone. Cho corroborates his thesis with a logical analysis of all the Hulk's historical conflicts. However, if the suppression of Banner's restrictions occurs, the Hulk can neutralize this limitation, such as when he becomes Worldbreaker.” {4}


So not only is his strength unlimited with a direct link to rage and adrenaline, he even HOLDS BACK. The likes of the Beyonder {4} and the Mad Thinker have described his strength as “incalculable.” {5}


Because of the properties of infinity anyone with the power cosmic would have unlimited power and therefore would have at his fingertips what the hulk would take hours to get even half as powerful. But whait climbing at even a extremely fast rate getting to infinity would take literally forever.


True, but it does not matter if your strength or speed is potentially infinite unless it is practical and has been shown. Yes, the Hulk’s strength is also infinite, but his feats of strength and achievements FAR outway that of the Silver Surfer.


“Among the Incredible Hulk's most amazing feats of strength are: Supporting and rising up despite being weighed down with a force claimed by Proxima as equal to the weight of a star… Once it was described as a supernova, its mass is at least 99% of the maximum white dwarf star, or 460,000 Earths.” {4}


The earth weighs 5.972 × 10^24 kilograms. (5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg.) {6}. Now times that by 460,000… He could raise that much. My opponent has not been able to provide a practical example of the Silver Surfer’s strength. Imagine how much force is carried around by a being that can lift THAT many kilograms.


Back to you, Con.


DarthKirones.


Sources:


{1} World War Hulk Vol 1 5

{2} Incredible Hulk Vol 2 103

(3} Giant Sized Hulk Vol 1 1

{4} http://marvel.wikia.com...

{5} Indestructible Hulk Vol 1 1

{6} http://www.universetoday.com...


P.S: Link to Comicstorian’s video: https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 3
cxman123

Con

Opening:
Salutations honerable opponents, debate.org and all voters whom might read this post
Rebuttle:
Firstly I would like to talk about my opponents neglegence about the hulk supposedly unlimited strength. But even if the hulk was in a state that his strength was doubling every plunk time (the amount of time it takes for light to pass the plunk distance, basically the shortest measurement of time ever conceived) it would still take an infinity long time to scratch the surface of the strength the silver surfer can have at an instant all he would have to do is focus the power cosmic into his strength which would be as fast as a thought.
Point:
My point is that the no matter how angry the hulk can get his strength will still be finite it is physically impossible for the hulks strength to ever be on par with the silver surfer. It's like a snale and a cheetah having a race to infinite Strength no matter how angry the snail gets it will never make it in time. Therfor no madder how angry the hulk is or how fast his strength grows it will never crack the infinite strength, speed, intelligence, or general power of the silver surfer. Because of this fact the silver surfer will be stronger that the hulk can ever be or not ever will or can be. Now to cover the others with the power cosmic, based on the things I have stated about the original herald of galactus the silver surfer so anyone that were to have the power cosmic they would have the same infinite strength at the same infinitesimally small period of time that the silver surfer would have his strength in.
Resolution:
I suck at long bits of writing (whoops wrong resolution)
The silver surfer has his unimaginable strength at his fingertips but the hulk is the equivalent of a snail with light years to go, a snail that is constantly being brought back by an ant fighting to get control, a snail that would be squashed by the silver surfer.
DarthKirones

Pro

Introduction:


Before we continue, I would like to thank my opponent for an excellent debate.


Rebuttal:


“Firstly I would like to talk about my opponents neglegence about the hulk supposedly unlimited strength. But even if the hulk was in a state that his strength was doubling every plunk time (the amount of time it takes for light to pass the plunk distance, basically the shortest measurement of time ever conceived) it would still take an infinity long time to scratch the surface of the strength the silver surfer can have at an instant all he would have to do is focus the power cosmic into his strength which would be as fast as a thought.


And here we go again. My opponent fails to provide a practical example of this happening. In my last argument, if you remember, I proved that the Hulk can lift an object with a mass of 460,000 Earths. Not only that, he did that instantaneously! {1} If you want me to list off more of the Hulk’s achievements,well, here they are:

  • Holding up a 150 Billion ton mountain dropped on him and other Super-Heroes by Molecule Man.

  • Shredding an Adamantium Net {2}

  • Literally shifting the plates of Sakaar’s crust, stopping the planet from destruction {3}

I have already said that both of them (Hulk and the Silver Surfer) have potentially infinite, but only one of us has given practical examples of this strength. So, despite my opponent’s claims, The Hulk CAN (and has) increase his strength quickly.


Readers. Please recognize the fact that only in theory the Silver Surfer can increase his strength quickly. My opponent has not given ANY example of this happening.


My point is that the no matter how angry the hulk can get his strength will still be finite it is physically impossible for the hulks strength to ever be on par with the silver surfer. It's like a snale and a cheetah having a race to infinite Strength no matter how angry the snail gets it will never make it in time. Therfor no madder how angry the hulk is or how fast his strength grows it will never crack the infinite strength, speed, intelligence, or general power of the silver surfer. ”


My opponent completely ignores facts about the Hulk in his argument here. The Hulk’s strength is POTENTIALLY infinite.


“All the incarnations of the Hulk, except for the Grey Hulk, can lift approximately 100 tons when calm. The Grey Hulk starts off at approximately 75 tons. As the familiar old adage goes, ‘The Madder the Hulk gets, the Stronger he gets.’ During times of high stress or anger, an increase in adrenaline causes the Hulk's strength to increase dramatically. There has never been a limit shown as to the highest strength the Hulk can reach thus it is assumed it is limitless. The Hulk has shown many incredible feats of the years, including holding up a 150 billion ton mountain during the Secret Wars and breaking open Onslaught's armor when the combined might of the rest of the world's heroes couldn't even make a scratch in it.” {4}


My opponent repeatedly compares the Hulk and the Silver Surfer to a snail and a cheetah respectively. And yet, he STILL does not provide an example of the Silver Surfer’s strength increasing rapidly. I understand that I am repeating what I said, but it is still valid. No examples and no proof. All hypotheticals. This applies to all individuals with the Power Cosmic.


“The silver surfer has his unimaginable strength at his fingertips but the hulk is the equivalent of a snail with light years to go, a snail that is constantly being brought back by an ant fighting to get control, a snail that would be squashed by the silver surfer.


I get what you keep on trying to say, but it is a flat out lie. I have proven multiple times now that A) The Hulk’s strength does not have a limit. B) It increases VERY quickly.


Closing Arguments and Conclusion:


Ladies and Gentlemen, I will keep these brief, but I would like to make some final arguments about the Hulk and the Silver Surfer.


The Silver Surfer, while a powerful character, has one major problem, his powers are vague.


“The Surfer possesses enormous superhuman strength. Though the exact magnitude remains vague” {5}


A major flaw on my opponents behalf is that he provided no reliable proof. He kept on saying that the Silver Surfer has infinite strength that will grow at a very fast rate, but without examples, this claim is useless.


Not only that, but all of his arguments were based on hypothetical abilities. I do not disagree that the Power Cosmic could grant near infinite power, but does that really matter if it is not used?


Anyways, I would like to conclude now.


  • My opponent failed to refute many of my points, and the ones he tried to refute had factual problems and were not supported by any evidence. (Arguments Points)

  • My opponent made several spelling mistakes during his arguments. (S&G Point)

  • My opponent only provided one source during the span of the debate, but after reviewing it, it did not contain the information he used. (Sources Point.)


I would like to thank my opponent for a fine debate.


Vote Pro.


DarthKirones.


Sources:

{1}http://marvel.wikia.com...

{2} Incredible Hulk Vol 3 11

{3} Incredible Hulk Vol 2 102

{4}http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com...

{5}http://marvel.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 1 year ago
dynamicduodebaters
Give me a day I got two notices about my lack of voting RFD and if I have one more bad vote I might not be able to vote EVER. Yah. Sucks.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 1 year ago
dynamicduodebaters
This should be fun
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
cxman123DarthKironesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro supported his/her arguments with cited sources; Con did not.