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The Contender
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i determine where cause and effect begins and ends

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,016 times Debate No: 64157
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)




i determine where cause and effect begins and ends, so in any example, like an apple on a tree, this apple begins to fall, the cause is the tree was shaken in hard wind, the effect is the fall, the effect is the apple hitting the ground, the effect is the apple rolling down the hill. cause is effect, and effect is cause


Vi_spex, I am glad to have this opportunity to debate with you on this topic. I hope you noted that your previous debate which you lost, I personally credit you the win.

A Cause has an Effect, and thus it is logical to put them together and say it is Logic to do such a thing.
The function of using math to determine reason and logic forgoes human nature, and your opponent and yourself pursued a path of redundancy after the initial contact.

However. NO. You do not determine where the cause and effect begin or end, not even in an example.

A.) an apple on a tree. (substance, topic
B.) apple begins to fall. (initiation exterior cause, pursuing occurring interior cause
C.) A hard wind is the fundamental cause in this moment. (Cause of this particular Fall)
D.) The apple falls (effect)
E.) The apple hits the ground: + rolls: (effects of a variety of causes.)

In the condition E, If the tree was higher, or there was no hill, the Fall is not the cause of either This collision nor this rolling, despite theoretically it is the same tree. This is because, the apple hitting the ground was caused not by the effect of the wind. Nor did the apple roll because it fell.

The apple hit the ground because it was unattached to stability.

The Apple rolled because there was a hill.

However, even if your thesis was accurate, You yourself still do not Determine the cause nor effect, nor does science, or physics, But Circumstances determines all things. God, as described in Hinduism, which is a monotheist religion, describes God as the circumstance of all things: as a mathematical law of conditions leading to causes and effects, unbiased towards all, kind to each, endlessly forgiving, utterly condemning, knowing of all, and the sole purpose and salvation of life, which precedes and proceeds all measurable causes or effects, even the First and the Last.

Thus you are wrong. For even as an atheist one cannot argue this; The Law of Mechanics rules over the determination of all causes and effects from their roots to their fallen fruit, Seeing that which you cannot see, and knowing that which you cannot know. And in this way, that which is good is not an opinion, nor is that which is bad, because the causes and effects internally and externally are beyond your comprehension, and have factual results determined to be a Good cause or a Bad cause by a superior nature of the Cosmic Order and Law which is entirely self aware and sustaining as a Universal (consisting of All things leaving nothing that is manifest unconsidered: Universal) entity.
Debate Round No. 1


to say I lost is to say votes determine the win, and it is a logical fallacy, I win because im right

the wind is the effect of a cause, the apple falling is caused by an effect, as any cause is caused by an effect, and any effect is caused by a cause, which also means there can not be a first cause.

the fall of the apple is the effect of the wind and the cause of a man kicking it so it falls into a lake, in this lake, fish start eating it... you see it dosnt end, and without the apple falling, non of this would happen

I agree the apple roll because there is a hill, but when did the cause of the apple rolling down the hill start?

the apple rolled, because there was a hill, and because of the wind, and the wind caused it because so on and so on

know=physical experience of now

if you push me off a cliff and I see you do it, feel the push, I know its you causing it..


You are wrong Vi_spex

In your evaluation the wind causes the apple to fall. Wrong.

The Apple dislodges from the tree because of the wind. It falls because the air beneath it does not support it yet still applies pressure on it's top. Fact. You can measure the pressure of the sky pressing down on us** This is the cause of the fall ~ continual pressure applied to the top half of the apple with no support beneath it. Thus you determine a False cause and are Wrong.

"the apple rolled, because there was a hill, and because of the wind, and the wind caused it because so on and so on"
To indicate this claim, you disregard that the Sun and moon alter and judge the weather of the world, and cloud cover from these causes and their conditions alters the wind. Thus the Cosmos is the cause of the apples fall, and you have once again disregarded the many variables that only one who Determines all causes and effects can determine.

The Earth turns, revealing moonlight on the ocean, and it churns. Clouds rise. Earth spins ~ Earth spins because it reaches no restricting forces in it's perfect continual movement. Sun heats the dry land, the clouds disperse. weather accumulates over time. Seasonal conditions incur ripe apple. A wind arises, and dislodges the apple. The apple falls because of "Gravity". The apples rolls because of the slope.

You Do not determine all causes and effects. Nor is the effect you chose the cause of the roll. The apple would have rolled had it simple fell in it's seasonal prime. Not a condition of the Wind.
Debate Round No. 2


the apple dislodges from the tree.... is the cause of it falling m8, i could also say the dislodging is the cause of the apple faliing, ai? its an eternal chain

no the air beneath it is not the cause of it falling, the air makes it possible for it to fall. it is already implied there is air, space beneath it in order for it to fall, but you could say the air beneath it is the cause that the wind could make the apple fall

sun is already implied in the example as fruits cant exist without sun, and we are talking about the reality we know

lies are complicated by separation, and true is simple now as one

cause and effect is determined by matter


The cause did not begin with the wind, nor end with the rolling. You cannot determine where causes begin or effects end.
Debate Round No. 3


precisely! but not precisely, because the cause is the wind, as there is no cause to make the apple dislodge and fall without it, for this logical chain to exist, another cause can happen, but then its a different chain of events that's going to accur :), as i said, logic is matter, and logic IS cause AND(+) effect


logic(cause)+experience(effect)=reason(logic, equation for how i got to it, if logic changes reason changes, if you have no intent you cant be immoral, if you cant tell right from wrong you cant be immoral, if you cant experience logic you cant have a concept of logic(reason))

if all apples became poisonous today, and we were all aware of it, would it then be right to give kids apples if we wanted them to be healthy(logic)? and even if we didn't want them to be healthy, would it then be right to give kids apples(moral)?



The apple falls because of "gravity"

thus. If your debate is that the apples falls because of the wind you are wrong. The apple falls because the pressure above the apple is greater than the pressure bellow it.

Thus, you hopefully have a very well developed final argument to defend your case,
which is hopefully not that the wind causes this singular apple to fall, but that an entire philosophical debate is being covered for a functional purpose of personal and communal growth.
That you determine All Causes and Effects is incomprehensible. You still have not even considered the consistency of the grounds surface, and how the wind is relevant to the following chain of events.
Debate Round No. 4


gravity is implied as well, colour, time space. it is true to say i pushed you off a cliff because if i dint you wouldn't have fallen off, gravity is the cause for why its possible for me to push you off along many other things, if you had no arms you couldn't push me off as well, so arms are implied unless i pushed you off with my body, but that is not relevant to argue

the wind causing an apple to fall cant happen?


My opponent determined an apple fell when the wind blew, and rolled down a hill, ceasing in it's effect.

This was all already implied.

My opponent did not however contribute anything else.

And in that regard, the wind was brought up by the Weather change, and the weather pushed the wind into the apple, and the wind was in effect not responsible for the apples fall. IN addition, the fallen apple where it lays alters the weather near and around it by creating surface for dew { just as a note.

I however Indicated in what I found to be a sound resolve that the Cosmos has a law that determines all causes and effects, not Vi_spex.
Debate Round No. 5
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
is it not possible for wind to cause an apple to fall off a tree?
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
what are you talking about.. :)

matter determines cause and effect, gp back and read the argument.

im talking about intelligence in the form of technology, what separates us from the animals
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
wind does not push itself**
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
u still do not determine causes or effects
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
if u think thumbs make people smart look to pagan Africa and south Asia
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
what you don't get it no matte where in the chains you say the effect ends its true, as the previus causes and effects are implied, when I say cause and effect is logic, another cause is already impliead as you cant have a cause without another cause causing it
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
1 big strawman at the end, I said cause is effect, and effect is cause, read the argument
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
so its like whatever i say the cause is unless its just really unrelated, you could say if the apple matured the cause might have been enough sun and good rain and stuff i don't know, but only if the apple can not have matured in any other way, cause and effect is logic, logic is absolute

i know human intelligence come from out thumbs, so that's how we got smart, so i know the past even if i am not there, becasue without hands i cant learn to build, there can be no cause and effect relation of learning how to build a house if i don't have hands, like a fish, he cant put a stick in the ground ye
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
i should stop typing so fast lol..
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
the wind is the cause pf the apple dislodgeing from the tree.... is the cause of it falling m8, just like the dislodging in the cause of it falling

i meant to say this in the debate gorodin
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con shows that the law of mechanics and gravity are out of pro's controls.