The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
InnovativeEphemera
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

i dont know=i have to imagine it

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
InnovativeEphemera
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 436 times Debate No: 66962
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

vi_spex

Pro

I know I am typing these words on my keyboard and reading them on my screen, as I don't have to imagine it, and know is true
InnovativeEphemera

Con

"I don't know" does not necessitate imagining an answer.

Example
Question: Do you have any milk?
Answer: "I don't know"
Potential response: checking the fridge for milk.

Imagining the answer is not a prerequisite for addressing a question where the answer is not currently known.

Secondary example:
What is making that noise?
"I don't know".
Potential response: following the sound to find out what it is.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

i don't know necessitates i have to image it

checking for milk because you have to imagine it

at what point do you know what makes the noise?
InnovativeEphemera

Con

You said, "I know I am typing these words on my keyboard and reading them on my screen, as I don't have to imagine it, and know is true [sic]".

By the same means, I say, "I know there is milk in my fridge as I am looking at it and don't have to imagine it".

When the source of the sound is identified, one can perform corroborative sensory audits to ensure one has identified the correct object.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

you are agreeing with me

when is the source identified as true?
InnovativeEphemera

Con

Sir, I'm afraid that you are imagining my agreement with you, because it is a belief, not a truth (belief =/= truth).

Perhaps you are not well versed in these terms. Let me teach you, because teaching is the greatest teacher, and teaching begets knowledge, knowledge begets wisdom and wisdom begets freedom. Let me explain, because this information is esoteric and not many people know about it.

cause+(and)effect=(equal, is)logic
plus+minus=equal
It follows that:
Logic and reason = cause + effect (-). So therefore, knowledge of truth (and NOT imagination follows):

sound_identify (which we will call S from now) = truth(T)(^2) - imagination(I)
In order for the truth of the origin of the sound to be valid, we must be sure it is not being caused by something else.
So: S =/= (T(^2) - I= S).

I am ascribing truth a square because it is more valuable, in my opinion, than imagination. What about you?

Make sense now?

Now, why did you drop my milk contention? Is it because you are aware that it is an example that demonstrates your flawed calculations about reality and imagination?

Over to you.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

"i know there is milk in my fridge as i am looking at it"

know=Physical experience of now

knowledge=truth=memory

truth can only be in the past, and only now is true

how are you sure what causes the sound?
InnovativeEphemera

Con

Exactly. Therefore, it is true that I did not know, and that I now know, making it truth, knowledge and a presently forming memory. So therefore, the questions was not answered with imagination, but by investigation, because "I don't know" is an investigable question.

I don't know =/= I have to imagine it

Also, 'have to' is imperative. If you don't care about the answer to the question, why do you have to imagine it?
Is it currently snowing in East Germany? At the moment, this question doesn't interest me, so I will not think about it nor investigate it nor imagine it. Therefore, I don't know =/= have to imagine. But if I DID want to know, instead of imagining it, I could Google it, and then I would know it.

I already explained that you know the sound is caused by something specific when it meets the following criteria:
Sound_Source_Incorrect =/= (T(^2) - I= S).

Also, I have already explained that one can identify the true source of the sound by performing independent, corroborative sensory audits to ensure one has identified the correct object.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

how are you sure what causes the sound?

know is now

knowledge=destruction(turn my back)

truth is knowledge, and truth can only be in the past, when you are look at your fridge it is now not in the past unless you remember your fridge

religion=to rely on
InnovativeEphemera

Con

Summary

-
Fundamentally insubstantial debate
- Nothing worth reading here
- If you don't know the answer to a question, there are other ways of finding the answer than guessing and/or imagining
- I'm not even entirely sure what this debate was about...?
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
just read his summary to understand how brutally I kicked his but ;)

he agree with me now
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
if I have a stone In my hand I dont have to imagine that I have a stone In my hand to answer a question like, do I have a stone in my hand
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
what does it mean when you say I dont know
Posted by Solomon_Orlando 1 year ago
Solomon_Orlando
So, if you could, could you please summarize your entire point in a very straight-forward way? Every debate you too is very pseudo-intellectual and it's hard to follow at times.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
imagination is on the opposite side of real
Posted by Solomon_Orlando 1 year ago
Solomon_Orlando
Is your debate implying that imagination has no reality or real-life consequences to it?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Leo.Messi 1 year ago
Leo.Messi
vi_spexInnovativeEphemeraTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro speaks non-sense
Vote Placed by bsh1 1 year ago
bsh1
vi_spexInnovativeEphemeraTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con is correct in his milk/fridge example insofar as I don't need my imagination to answer that question. Con was also easier to read, with fewer grammatical errors and peculiarities. Thus, I vote Con.