The Instigator
brokenboy
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points

if mortal kombat were to face of with dc universe mortal kombat would win

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/6/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,043 times Debate No: 12892
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (5)

 

brokenboy

Pro

the first round is to establish ground rules

5 characters from dc universe against five characters from mortal kombat
all characters get weapons that they usually carry with them but no subordinates unless they count as one of your choices

here are my five
- sub zero
- scorpion
- shang tsung
- shao khan
- raiden
Korashk

Con

Fighters:
- [1] Superman
- [2] Maritan Manhunter
- [3] Black Adam
- [4] The Flash
- [5] Green Lantern
~

Additional Terms:
No playing semantics.
I reserve the right to use additional sources in reference to my character's abilities, these are simply to establish identity.
~

I look forward to my opponent's opening arguments.
~

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
[5] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 1
brokenboy

Pro

now i will pair off my fighters to yours.
- super man/scorpion: Scorpion is immune to death as his soul is still bound by revenge, allowing him to endlessly chase his targets until they have been silenced. one of the main elements that scorpion uses is hell fire beacuse it is a mystical magic i think its safe to say that it will actually hurt him and cause massive damage even death. He has the ability to teleport, often used in the form of surprise or ambush attacks so in the event that super man attemps to run away scorpion can catch up. Scorpion goes into his victory pose as the ground begins to shake violently. Moments later, he and his opponent are automatically transported to Scorpion's Lair where numerous of his dead clan members rise from the ground to utterly destroy the opponent. The Fatality is presumed to be brutal enough to fade to black as the opponent is beaten before a splat and a scream is heard. super man has no chance of escape.

- shang tsun/martian man hunter: due to shang tsun using fire as his main element it would prove to be a great weakness for the martian manhunter he looses all abilities and once the martian has is weak and vunerable shang tsung would just draw the martians soul from body, resulting manhunter's death another approach, Shang Tsung enters his opponent's body. The body violently shakes until it explodes as Shang appears in the opponent's place. . once done with manhunter he would assume the manhunter's shape and confuse his opponents and start attacking them as well.

- raiden/black adam: although black adam may be very powerful it is stated that only mystiacal abilities could affect him like the power of spectire also it takes a god to bestow power it takes a god to take them away and so i belive that it is safe to assume that raiden would have the power to take away black adam's or at least break through his shelid an affect him massively also it is stated that raiden had the ability to kill two other eldar gods and given enough time kill someone as powerful as the dragon king. as i stated earlier for scorpion eventually immortalitiy is going to win.

- flash/sub-zero: i have paired off these two beacuse it would be like the flash fighting captain cold but intstead ten times faster ten times more endurance and will fight to the end. Aside from flash-freezing opponents, Sub-Zero also has the ability to instantly conjure up an ice statue of himself to act as both a scapegoat and a 'landmine' of sorts as any who touch it instantly flash freeze therefore making it so that if the flash were to fall into this trap sub zero would kill him quickly before anything else could happen. Ground Ice: Sub-Zero freezes the floor and whoever steps on the circle of ice will temporarily slip all over the place, setting the opponent up for a free hit this concept would be much like what captian freeze uses only sub zero wouldnt waste time in killing the flash. Freezing Teleport: Sub-Zero's body becomes ice, falls to the ground, and reappears next to his opponent thus causing him to catch up to the flash if he attemps to run.

- green lantern/shao khan: During the events of Armageddon, he was able to smash through Mileena's magic barrier with his hammer meaning therefore that he would most likley be able to break through any green lantern barriers that green lantern has made. also he was shown to have great healing capabilities much like manhunter but he can also use it to revive other people. shao khan has been proven in MKA to have the power to create force fields around him and his opponents and therefore he could trap green lantern into a force field and start crushing him as the green lantern wouldnt be able to escape. just by laughing he could heal his health in all games. also if any of the other characters including himself were to die he could simply bring them back with lack of effort by making sure that their soul does not leave outworld and stay there then they simply come back to this relm.

with all of my characters unlike the characters from dc universe they will not waste time to kill their opponent where as with DC universe they take to much time trying to subdue the opponent also my characters will not give up or run away where as with DC universe in the comics the characters have run away from a fight numerous times

i would like to thank my opponent for spending the time to debate
Korashk

Con

.
.
.

~~~~~~~
Rebuttals
~~~~~~~

/// Superman vs. Scorpion ///

Well, my opponent is right in one regard with his assertion. Scorpion's hellfire would probably be able to do harm to Superman, but other than that there is really nothing he could do. Scorpion has no superhuman powers other than his ability to teleport and utilize hellfire. While I realize that the hellfire MIGHT be able to harm Superman, I doubt it would be enough to incapacitate him.

Here is an example of Superman's durability when it comes to magic:
"He was able to survive when he had a magical sword in the chest and a magical arrow in his back. It was during a fight against four Elder Gods. A fight that Superman won. He was able to withstand a magical blast that managed to knockout the entire JLA and both Wonder Woman (magic being) and Zauriel (Angel). He went after the [enemy] in question and stopped him.[1]"

Scorpion has nowhere close to the kind of power that could simultaneously knock out the entire Justice League of America. Counter this with the fact that Superman's combat abilities are superior to those of Scorpion [2]. The fight between these two would be short, even with Scorpion's immortality, he is not invulnerable, like Superman, and can therefore be worn down.

Lastly, the attack my opponent describes in the final half of his argument is a fatality attack, not one that Scorpion is able to use in normal combat.
~~~

/// Martian Manhunter vs. Shang Tsun ///

My opponent's entire argument here relies on exploiting Martian Manhunter's psychosomatic fear of fire. The only problem here is that Martian Manhunter no longer has a psychosomatic fear of fire [3]. I will allow my opponent time to rework this match-up before presenting arguments in favor of Martian Manhunter.
~~~

/// Black Adam vs. Raiden ///

It is not safe to say that Raiden would be able to take away Black Adam's powers. My opponent is referring to this phrase from the source I provided: "It is known that certain gods of sufficient power, can manipulate Shazam's spell and render Black Adam back to the human form of Teth-Adam once more." [4]

Since Raiden is not of the DC Universe originally it is unlikely that he is among the certain few that are able to rescind Black Adam's powers. It is also worth noting that Gods in the Mortal Kombat Universe are significantly different than those of the DC Universe. Their gods change much of the time and can be killed because they are only able to fight in mortal form [5], whereas the gods of the DC Universe are similar to those described in the various mythologies such as Norse, Roman, Greek, and Egyptian.

Raiden's powers are also limited to control over lightning, a very powerful mastery, flight, and teleportation via the utilization of an ethereal state. Raiden, like Scorpion, does not have any other superhuman abilities.

Black Adam on the other hand is imbued with the power of the Egyptian gods by speaking the word "SHAZAM." This grants him the abilities including:
- "withstand[ing] and surviv[ing] all types of extreme physical assaults" [5]
- "easily running at a speed of over Mach 500" [5]
- "mystically fly[ing] through the atmosphere" [5]
- "strength that enables him to lift 100,000 tons effortlessly" [5]
- "An uncanny awareness of his circumstances that allows him to turn disadvantages into advantages" [5]
- and "He can channel the Power of Aton and the other Gods to increase the power of his attacks to God like levels, whilst doing this he has hurt the likes of Spectre himself." [5]
- (Spectre, for comparison: [6])

With these powers Black Adam would decimate Raiden.
~~~

/// The Flash vs. Sub-Zero ///

This battle is deceptively the most lopsided in my favor. The Flash's powers are derived from a force referred to as Speed Force [7]. The speed force grants The Flash a variety of powers, two of which are specifically able to decimate any conceivable opponent is utilized. The first is Speed Steal, which allows The Flash to rob objects of their kinetic energy, rendering them inert [7], or turning them into statues.

The second power is the Infinite Mass Punch [7][8, image]. After rendering Sub-Zero inert The Flash could begin to move at close to the speed of light and deliver a single punch that has the power of a White Dwarf star going supernova. Since Sub-Zero dos not have superhuman endurance [9] the blow would utterly obliterate him.
~~~

/// Green Lantern vs Shao Khan ///

To assert that Shao Khan could break Green Lantern's constructs using the comparison of Mileena my opponent must show that Mileena's barriers are of equal to the durability of Green Lantern's constructs. He has not done this.

Therefore for the sake of this match-up it will be assumed that Green Lantern will not specifically form barriers to protect himself. This hardly limits him in regards to combat. The things he can construct are only limited by his imagination and have the capabilities to lift in excess of 100 tons [10].

Due to my opponent's argument relying on his character being able to destroy the constructs of mine, I will allow him to actually show how this is so before elaborating my arguments.
~~~

I look forward to my opponent's response.

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://www.superherodb.com...
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
[5] http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
[6] http://tinyurl.com...
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[8] http://upload.wikimedia.org...
[9] http://tinyurl.com...
[10] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 2
brokenboy

Pro

scorpion/super man: my opponent states that scorpion could be worn down this is in fact inccorsct beacuse of the fact that when he dies his soul goes to hell and hell spits him back out in a new vessel and so there fore i do not understand what my opponent states by wearing down scorpion.

also my opponent said that i was reffering to a fatality move which scorpion would not use during combat but this has been proven to be incorrect beacuse scorpion did that exact thing when fighting jhonny cage in the first movie i will show as the first video on the right also let me point out that the only reason they showed jhonny cage beating scorpion was to continue the plot.

martian manhunter/shang tsun: my opponent stated that martian manhunter did not longer have a psychosomatic fear of fire well please provide a link with the info and according to this link also the martian man hunter was killed by the human flame right so i think fire still has effect as well shang tsung gets his power from the gods he worships and so the fire is not the same as rgular earth fire and will be a little like the fire from scorpion and so it should still take the same effect and especially since shang tsung can manipulate it extremely easily for example when he made it into a snake.

raiden/black adam: this is in fact inccorect that the gods can be killed beacuse raiden and the other elder gods have fought and died then there "spirit energy comes back and retakes their form" the seacond video on the right shows this

the only thing that raiden would have to do is send electric shocks through black adam's body causing black adam to teleport into space causing instatenous death and raiden might die as well but due to his status as a god he has the power to come back and help the other fighters

sub zero/flash: while this is true and as i only paired the two beacuse i needed the others characters but at the same time as i was stateing earlier sub zero can create a clone in which flash would get frozen from and he can freeze the ground which causes sub zero to slip and therefore renders it use less.

green lantern/shao khan: im sorry for not specifying but by shao khan i meant dark khan i am sorry for not specifying and so i would like your consent in this but if not i will still argue with shao khan.

i am sorry for lack of links as i was haveing trouble with the comp and here are he links
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
all my ablilties listed are in the links

i look forward to my opponent expanding on his characters abilities
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

~~~~~~~
Rebuttals
~~~~~~~

/// Superman vs. Scorpion ///

Alright, Scorpion CAN teleport to the underworld place during battle. That is not the part of your described attack that was the important part. The important part of the attack you described in your opening argument was his minions rising up and utterly destroying his opponent. That did not happen in the video. There's also the fact that in the video Scorpion was defeated by Johnny Cage, whose powers pale in comparison to those of Superman [1]. You say it was for plot, I say Scorpion just got beat.

There's also the issue that one can wear a person down without killing them.
~~~

/// Martian Manhunter vs. Shang Tsun ///

Again my opponent relies on Martian Manhunter's non-existent psychosomatic fear of fire, despite my source stating that the fear is non-existent. From the source provided in Round 2 there are two possible outcomes that happen when Martian Manhunter sees fire:

Option 1:
["When the Martian Manhunter confronts his fear of fire, he reverts into one of the ancient creatures and changes his name to Fernus. His genetic memory identifies threats such as Vandal Savage, who killed one of the Burning on ancient Earth. This same genetic memory also makes Fernus hate the Green Lantern, due to his association with the Oans.

Fernus increases the strength of the powers he inherits from J'onn: For example, he can phase other beings rather than just himself, and he has access to pyrokinesis. He can breathe fire of such intensity it harms Scorch, who had previously been thought immune to damage from fire. Fernus' tremendous strength also allows him to dominate the Justice League in combat even without his Martian telepathic powers. He can also heal himself from almost total destruction within seconds."]

This would be bad for my opponent, since Fernus is a being much more powerful than Martian Manhunter, but this is the less likely scenario.

Option 2:
["After destroying Fernus, J'onn grieves for Scorch, who had fallen into coma, and with whom he had fallen in love. J'onn later tells Superman that his aversion to fire has changed: he is now invulnerable to flames unless they are "flames of passion" or of some other "psychic significance"."]

This is the more likely scenario, because it means that Martian Manhunter would continue to perform as he would in a normal battle.

I even allowed my opponent to compose an argument for this matchup outside of the official debate, which is an offer he refused [2].
~~~

/// Black Adam vs. Raiden ///

Alright, so you have another immortal character. This is also rendered moot in light of the fact that it is possible to defeat an immortal as defeat is not strictly defined as killing a thing [3]. My opponent also fails to describe how teleporting into space would instantly kill Black Adam, due to the fact that his physiology allows him to survive, unaided in space:

"Additionally, he does not need to eat or breathe and can survive unaided in space. [R2, 4]"

I also apologize to the readers, the citations for Black Adam's powers should be referenced by source 4, not source 5 in the above round.
~~~

/// The Flash vs. Sub-Zero ///

I believe that my opponent fails to see the ramifications of The Flash's utilization of the Speed Force. If Sub-Zero is unable to move he can not utilize any of his abilities. Motion is necessary for the characters in mortal combat to utilize their special abilities. This is referenced by your videos and the fact that it is commonly known that in Mortal Kombat games the player must execute a sequence of button combinations to perform more than the most basic of attacks, making the character execute a series of motions.

With Speed Steal rendering Sub-Zero motionless these motions are not possible..
~~~

/// Green Lantern vs. Dark Kahn ///

This is an interesting match-up as Dark Kahn is by far your strongest character. So rather than do a play-by-play of their fight I will address how there is no way that Dark Kahn would be able to win this fight. Green Lantern has the power to destroy and reshape the universe, and would not succumb to "Kombat Rage" as one with strong willcan overcome it [4]:

["Hal Jordan's will has been described as the greatest in the universe. His power is only limited by his own imagination, making him one of the most powerful superheroes in the universe. He has defeated beings such as Sinestro, Mongul, and even the entire JLA on one occasion. In the future when his evil side, Parallax, went rogue and nearly destroyed and recreated the universe, an alternate Hal from the past was not only able to match Parallax's will but fought him to a stalemate, while the most powerful beings couldn't scratch him." [5]]
~~~

I'm still waiting for my opponent's against Martian Manhunter.

[1] http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
[2] http://i55.tinypic.com...
[3] http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
[4] http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
[5] http://greenlantern.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 3
brokenboy

Pro

superman/scorpion: while this is true that the minons did not rise up is proof to the fact that the only reason jhonny won was to keep the plot going as a sample of this they are redoing the movie and in the preveiw baraka kills jhonny cage yet in that movie scorpion is the one who wins over baraka and all the others so in the newest movie scorpion is far more powerful than baraka. watch the first video on the right if you dont want to waste time skip to 3:00 and watch to the end so now the main character is scorpion.
i still dont see the point of wearing scorpion down scorpion knows he is invincible and so in that thinking he could just kill himself and regenerate.

martian manhunter/shang tsung: as i pointed out shang tsung cannot die either in my video deception posted in my earlier debate and so it will have the same wearing out effect and as i probably should have made scorpion go against the manhunter beacuse of scorpions special flames i learnt that shang tsung has the ability to turn himself into any of the characters in mortal kombat proof of this is listed in the second video. Most recently it was revealed, during the Trial By Fire storyline,[35] that this fear was instilled on a genetic level by the Guardians of the Universe 20,000 years ago to weaken what was then a very aggressive species on the verge of interstellar conquest - this act split the race into the Green Martians and White Martians, though no mention is made of the pre-Crisis third race known as the Yellow Martians.[36] At the end of the arc, this weakness was partially removed, with J'onn explaining that only fires of "psychic significance" were of harm to him, such as flames of suffering or passion (this was seemingly a roundabout way of limiting his weakness to flames of a mystical or pyrokinetic nature, flames from hell hmm now that sounds like flames of suffering to me.

and if by chance he turns into fernus it wont be bad for shang tsung it will be bad for the green lantern two of some of the strongest opponents from both sides against green lantern will be over whelming (the reason for fenrus to direct all of his attacks to green lantern is due to the fact that green lantern somewhat resembles the white martians causing deep feelings of anger towards green lantern) also even in event that martian would kill shang tsung he would then next go after green lantern and shang tsun would come back as good as new and go help in the assitance of martians death after fenrus kills green lantern with the help of dark khan.

black adam/ raiden: nowhere in this debate did i state that the fighters were figthing to beat i said in the title win and this my fault for badly setting up rules also you cant truly beat someone without killing them also that is the thing about mortal Kombat they will not quit and will not run away they are used to battle as most of them are over 500 years old

ya i must say i didnt read all of black adam's abilities so i surrender the space thing but raiden is widely known for his portal creations and so he could teleport black adam into a different relm such as the nether-relm and his powers of shazam wouldnt reach him and render him unuseful also he could teleport him to places such as shang tsung's portal of souls which act almost like scorpion's hell once put in you cant get out. the second video on the right proves this.

flash/ sub-zero: then by that reasoning you characters have the same weakness too beacuse in mortal kombat V.S D.C universe all characters have moves that require a series of buttons to be pressed also in every fighting game for a special move to be executed they need a series of buttons to be pressed so this statement holds no grounds.

also another thing when mortal kombat are fighting with DC universe the instantly get the first attack this is due to the fact that mortal kombat know that they are there to fight and kill DC universe on the other hand with DC universe they are trying to figure out the intentions of these guys. thus allowing sub zero to freeze the ground before flash does anything.

green lantern/dark khan: "the Omega Effect can also be used to teleport Darkseid or others through time and space" - taken from wiki here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org... now since dark khan is a mixture of both shao khan and darkseid it enables dark khan to use any abilities used by either of them http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
so essentailly dark seid can travel back in time and wipe out any enemy's entire existance resulting them the winner. also some people state that flash can do this to, this is in fact inccorect while there is einstien's theory of relativity it only states that when something moves as fast as the speed of light it can end up in tomorrow however there is no such law stateing that there is a way to move back in time thus flash would just continue into the future and not be able to move back.

His main power, the Omega Effect, is a form of energy that he fires from his eyes as either concussive force or beams of disintegration, capable of transmuting or erasing most living objects and organisms from existence as well as to reform or resurrect them. Anything Darkseid disintegrates with the Omega Effect can be brought back at any time by him, and he often uses this as a form of punishment. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows them to travel in straight lines, bend, twist, or curve around corners, and can pass through matter and energy. this enables him to move through any and all attacks or defenses green lantern uses and disinegrates him without a moment hesitation beacuse regardless of what it is all things are made up of matter and if not matter it will be made up of energy and so he could use this on all opponents resulting a quick win for my side. http://en.wikipedia.org...

in mortal Kombat vs DC universe everyone was effected by kombat rage even green lantern and so there is no reason why he wouldnt be affected now

dark khan could take on every one at once and still prevail but with the help of three immortals that cant die and even if the could for some weird reason then they could just be brought back by dark khan's abilities.

also to add on a rule i know its kind of late but i am unable to vote for myself so could you not vote for yourself and let the veiwers vote

i am so greatful to my opponent for taking the time to complete this debate and i wish to get feedback on anything i can inprove on for this i would be immensly appreciative.
Korashk

Con

Korashk forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
I thank my opponent for his response.

/// Superman vs. Scorpion ///

Your reasoning is weak. If you wanted to have Scorpion's attack utilize minions you should have argued that the minions would come instead of providing a source that proves they do not, and the fact that Baraka beat Johnny Cage in this video irrelevant. You have already provided a source where Scorpion loses to Cage, therefore it is perfectly likely that Cage could beat Scorpion.

I would also think that if your opponent has resorted to killing himself then you have won the fight, because contrary to what you state earlier, you can defeat someone without killing them. This match goes to Superman.
~~~
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
/// Martian Manhunter vs. Shang Tsung ///

The flames you refer to are not "psychic flames." They are physical flames. Martian Manhunter's weakness is akin to the weakness that a suffering loved one gives you, or that love gives you. Currently there is no way that your fighter could harm Martian Manhunter, as he has the ability to Phase through physical mass. Combine this with his Psionic abilities including:

- Mind Control, the ability to control his opponent's mind and make them do his bidding
- Psionic Blasts, which are psychic blasts used to render an opponent unconscious or kill them.

This is sufficient to take out any opponent. The match goes to Martian Manhunter.
~~~

/// Black Adam vs. Raiden ///

Here you state a new qualifier to the debate which states that to win my side must kill the members of your side. I do not accept this qualifier, but even if I did it is not like your players can not die. They die all the time, they just don't stay dead, as is referenced by your videos where numerous immortal characters are killed.

So now you want Raiden to teleport Back Adam to different realms, and them give unsourced information about these realms and Black Adam himself. For instance, there is nothing to suggest that Black Adam would be powerless in these other realms, and there is nothing to suggest that he would not be able to escape from these realms. This is a desperate attempt by my opponent to trick the voters.

There is also the point that teleporting somebody to another place =/= winning, or beating them. It's a bit like running away. The match goes to Black Adam.
~~~
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
/// The Flash vs. Sub-Zero ///

Here my opponent misunderstood my argument. I did not say that buttons need to be pressed for them to act. I said that Martal Kombat typically need to execute a series of movements to perform their special attacks, which is shown in the videos you provide of in-game play. These movements can not be performed if the actor is incapable of movement.

Also, using the Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe video game is not a valid argument as the characters of DC had their powers and abilities significantly lessened. See this video for evidence [1]. In the video Superman is being damaged by regular punches, which in a normal setting would do nothing to harm him. The match goes to The Flash.
~~~

/// Green Lantern vs. Dark Kahn ///

Here my opponent claims that Dark Kahn has powers that his source for Dark Kahn does not claim he has. While Dark Kahn may be a fusion of Shao Kahn and Darksied, he is a being that only exists in a non-canonical medium. That medium being Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe video game. As I have previously shown the powers of those DC characters are reduced in that game, and the article on Dark Kahn do not list him as being able to travel through time, even if the action is hypothetically possible. Nor does it say that he cancontrol his Omega Beams in the manner that Darksied can.

In reference to my opponent's point about Kombat Rage, here is an excerpt that describes the power:

"Though the influence is powerful it can still be conquered with enough willpower." [2]

As previously asserted, Green Lantern's will is the strongest in the universe. Kombat Rage would be inefective against him. The Match goes to Gren Lantern.

[1] Video
[2] http://mortalkombat.wikia.com...
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
I can't believe this happened...
I wrote up a round and then fell asleep because I was so tired after school.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
Your arguments hold no weight without sources.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
Aww. I was going to take this.
Posted by brokenboy 7 years ago
brokenboy
lol thanks well im trying to think of more ideas for you do you have any idea's
Posted by Loserboi 7 years ago
Loserboi
AYE... your back... your one of my favorite debaters on this site
Posted by Loserboi 7 years ago
Loserboi
i wish i saw this movie
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