The Instigator
mscolorado
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MaxHayslip
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

illegal immigrants

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/6/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,309 times Debate No: 3926
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (10)

 

mscolorado

Pro

Everyone is always stating, How Illegals are a problem, The only problem is the Mouths it is coming from, if everyone would just mind their own business, and leave Hispancs alone... this would be a better place to live,
but what is going to end up happening, the illegals are going to be forced to go back, and everyone will wish they were here again.

THEY ARE HARD WORKERS, GREAT PROVIDERS FOR THEIR FAMILIES!
MOST WHITE AND BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T SAY THE SAME THINGS ABOUT THEMSELVES

HISPANICS TAKE THE SLACK FOR WHAT AMERICANS DON'T WANT.

50% OF AMERICANS START SOMETHING THAT 100% OF HIPANICS FINISH,

I am a white american women, and I am ashamed that the united states has started this entire MESS!!!!!! something that should have never happend. and if some people want to get right down to it, the truth is many many many years ago, a portion of the united states, was Mexico.....

America has been a blessed place, america has been built up, because we were thankful of all things, but in todays world, things are changing, and people aren't thankful anymore, people are not welcoming different cultures in our country, people are making big deals of nothing, there are no problems with hispancs...... only people who are making problems of it...

I can't believe that this is happening, but I should because it is only the BIBLE fullfilling, everyone is growing weary, and becoming evil....

so really my words aren't going to matter, just like yours isn't.... whats going to happen is going to happen, and there is nothing we can do about it, But I do think people should lay off the hispancs and stop being so jealous...
yes they drive new cars, yes their grocery buggies are more full than yours, yes they smile a lot, and they are happy....but it is only because they works their asses off... so if you have a problem with jealous, change your ways if you envy them..... work harder.... BUT FOR GODS SAKE LEAVE THEM ALONE......
THEIR HARD WORKERS, AND GREAT SPIRITED PEOPLE (I KNOW) I HAVE A WONDERFUL HUSBAND, WHOM I AM BLESSED FROM GOD ABOVE TO HAVE MET......I WOULDN'T TAKE A WHITE MAN OVER HIM ANYDAY.... ALLTHOUGH I KNOW THERE ARE GREAT WHITE MEN....AS IN EVERY RACE.....BUT EVERYONE NEEDS TO LAY OFF!
MaxHayslip

Con

Hello, I guess I will take your offer to debate, and wish you the best of luck on this subject. It's an interesting topic; although I must warn you to be wary of your statements that could be percieved as racist.

"Everyone is always stating, How Illegals are a problem, The only problem is the Mouths it is coming from, if everyone would just mind their own business, and leave Hispancs alone... this would be a better place to live"

That is quite untrue, illegal immigrants increase taxes for Americans contributing to the ever growing American deficit and to American homelessness.

Each year, families and individuals pay taxes to the government and receive back a wide variety of services and benefits. A fiscal deficit occurs when the benefits and services received by one group exceed the taxes paid. When such a deficit occurs, other groups must pay for the services and benefits of the group in deficit. Each year, govern-ment is involved in a large-scale transfer of resources between different social groups. (1)

Here are statistics on the views of illegal immigrants on different groups (2):
Almost all Americans (90 percent) say illegal immigration is a "very" serious (60 percent) or "somewhat" serious (30 percent) problem for the country today — essentially unchanged from a year ago this time.

Republicans (65 percent) are somewhat more likely than Democrats (58 percent) to say illegal immigration is a "very" serious problem, and Americans over age 65 are significantly more likely than those under age 30 to think so (71 percent and 46 percent respectively).

How do Americans want to deal with illegal immigrants? Large majorities favor increasing the number of border patrol agents (80 percent) and imposing fines and criminal charges against employers who hire illegals (73 percent).

By eight-to-one, Americans think it is unfair to grant rights to illegal immigrants while thousands of people wait each year to come to the United States legally. Fully 86 percent of Republicans think it is unfair, as do 77 percent of Democrats.

Immigration reforms (3):
There are two camps in immigration reform; the enforcement camp, which worries that illegal immigration threatens the peace of the nation and its laws, and the guest-worker camp, who worry that without these immigrants our prosperity will be at risk. But in reality, the goals of the two camps are complementary, not contradictory: With a legal path to work comes secure borders, and with secure borders comes economic prosperity.

To protect America from terrorism, drug trafficking and lawlessness, those in favor of an enforcement-only approach propose massive increases in funding for border control to stop the flow of illegal aliens across the U.S.-Mexico border. It is imperative, they argue, to regain control of the border, and with good reason. In 2005, Customs and Border Patrol stopped 1,189,114 people from illegally crossing the border, including more tha n 200 from Middle Eastern countries such as Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.

There are also an astounding amount of other problems caused by illegal immigrants, here are some statistics (4):

Illegal immigrants in America: 21,511,415
OTM (Other than Mexico) illegal immigrants in America: 535,484
Money wired to Mexico since January 2006: $29,657,318,494
Money wired to Latin America since 2001: $262,185,629,117
Cost of Social Services for Illegal Immigrants since 1996: $397,456,108,652
Children of illegal immigrants in public schools: 4,345,861
Cost of children of illegal immigrants in K-12 since 1996: $14,188,462,809
Illegal immigrants incarcerated: 364,263
Cost of incarcerations since 2001: $1,412,188,851
Illegal Immigrant fugitives: 677,987
Anchor Babies (definition below) since 2002: 1,979,211
Skilled jobs taken by illegal immigrants: 10,488,633

An Anchor baby is a baby born of illegal immigrant parents; this is significant because babies born on United States soil are citizens (whether or not they are of illegal descent).

If an automatic "path to citizenship" (i.e., Amnesty) is offered, government leaders will quickly realize there are significantly more than 10-11 million in the country--in fact, there are more than 20 million. This would also be an offense to the millions of honest immigrants who have become citizens through the established legal process. The opportunity to live and work in America must remain an invited and controlled privilege, not to be gained by backdoor tactics. (4)

"but what is going to end up happening, the illegals are going to be forced to go back, and everyone will wish they were here again."

I'd like to argue that because of the growing national deficit that it is imperative that we deport illegal immigrants; they are taking jobs and money from the United States economy, leading to an economic decline. This economic decline leads to structural violence (Due to the United States' inability to pay for our basic needs because of a budget deficit caused by illegal immigrants and the Social Security of the Baby Boomers).

18 million deaths a year are caused by structural violence compared with about 100,000 deaths per year from armed conflict. A hypothetical nuclear exchange between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R (232 million) cannot begin to compare with structural violence, which continues year after year. In other word, every fifteen years, on the average, as many people die because of relative poverty as would be killed in a nuclear war that caused 232 million deaths; and every single year, two to three times as many people die from poverty throughout the world as were killed by the Nazi genocide of the Jews. This is, in effect, the equivalent of an ongoing, unending, in fact accelerating, thermonuclear war, or genocide, perpetrated on the weak and poor every year of every decade, throughout the world. (5)

The threat of illegal immigrants grows bigger the longer it is left untouched (As you suggested), if we were to follow through with your plan we would end up facing poverty and war.

"THEY ARE HARD WORKERS, GREAT PROVIDERS FOR THEIR FAMILIES!
MOST WHITE AND BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T SAY THE SAME THINGS ABOUT THEMSELVES
HISPANICS TAKE THE SLACK FOR WHAT AMERICANS DON'T WANT.
50% OF AMERICANS START SOMETHING THAT 100% OF HIPANICS FINISH"

Although I do agree that Hispanics are hard workers, I would like to inform you that the argument is on illegal immigrants. Although, I must remind you that illegal immigrants have taken nearly 10.5 million skilled jobs from American citizens; are you suggesting that these are unwanted jobs?

Your argument on the United States' land previously being part of Mexico is irrelevant. You restate that the United States should discontinue (or never have started) their pursuit of deportation of illegal immigrants in which I must remind you of the massive amounts of debt they cause American citizens which could bring the United States' decline invariably.

"I can't believe that this is happening, but I should because it is only the BIBLE fullfilling, everyone is growing weary, and becoming evil...."

On the above statement, I would like to introduce the amount of foreign aid America gives (much larger than most other countries) (6):

The US being the wealthiest, strongest and most influential nation, it is worth seeing how their actions or inaction affect other nations. One notable area is US foreign aid. Being a major part of the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and even helping to formulate the United Nations over 50 years ago, their actions can be felt around the world.

The following statement is written on other country's foreign aid programs (6):
Even though these targets and agendas have been set, year after year almost all rich nations have constantly failed to reach their agreed obligations of the 0.7% target $100 billion.

Whoops, i've run out of room! I'll cite in the commentary.
Debate Round No. 1
mscolorado

Pro

mscolorado forfeited this round.
MaxHayslip

Con

My partner conceded her point by not responding within the alloted time, although I will continue the debate for her sake and for the sake of possibly reaching someone on this issue.

Last round I hit the character limit, here are some final arguements and citations.

I have continued arguements, but the limit wold not allow me to add them.

"so really my words aren't going to matter, just like yours isn't.... whats going to happen is going to happen, and there is nothing we can do about it, But I do think people should lay off the hispancs and stop being so jealous..."

We are not jealous, we are enraged. Our money pays for the care of illegal immigrants while they continue to work untaxed. We need to fix the problem of illegal immigrants before it brings the decline of our nation into sight. Yet again, Hispanics are not always illegal immigrants.

"yes they drive new cars, yes their grocery buggies are more full than yours, yes they smile a lot, and they are happy....but it is only because they works their asses off... so if you have a problem with jealous, change your ways if you envy them..... work harder.... BUT FOR GODS SAKE LEAVE THEM ALONE......"

You suggest that people work harder; although the problem is that most citizens cannot afford to live on the wages paid to illegal immigrants (They do not drive new cars or have "more full grocery buggies"). Illegal immigrants are hired because their extremely low hourly rage, and undying effort; although they take away American money, causing us problems in the long run.

In conclusion, I'd like to state that illegal immigration is a growing problem for America. If America is expected to sustain itself as a leading power in the world illegal immigration must be stopped.

Citation (If you provide evidence, could you cite it?):
(1)http://www.heritage.org...
(2)http://www.foxnews.com...
(3)http://www.freedomworks.org...
(4)http://immigrationcounters.com...
(5)James Gilligan, Violence: Reflections on Our Deadliest Epidemic, 2000, p. 195-196,
(6)http://www.globalissues.org...

Now to my new arguments

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year. (1)

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals. (1)

Few Americans comprehend the various impacts and financial costs of illegal migration into the United States. Like a cancer, it enters the body while proliferating until, at some point, it compromises, then destroys the integrity of surrounding tissue. Illegal "migration" encroaches on legal American taxpayers who work honestly within their system. (2)

With more than 20 million illegal aliens working and living in the United States today, that malignancy spreads out of control in every state where a sizable population of aliens congregates. (2)

According to the well-respected U.S. Center for Immigration Studies (www.cis.org), incarcerated convicted illegal aliens make up 29 percent of federal, state and local prisons at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. This number doubles when the costs for apprehension, the justice system, public defenders, interpreters, prosecutors and the courts add to the total.(2)

Why we cannot have open borders:
Business interests however are short-term. Easy immediate access to labour will always be preferred to the costs of training and capital investment for the longer term. In the nature of economic cycles, yesterday's essential labour can often become, as the defunct factories and mills of Europe have shown, today's unemployed. Employers who demanded immigrant labour are not held to account for this or required to contribute to subsequent costs of their unemployed former workers. Few things are more permanent that temporary worker from a poor country. If business were made responsible for the lifetime costs of their migrant labour in the same way as they must now deal with the lifetime environmental costs of their products, perhaps enthusiasm for labour migration might be moderated and make way for longer-term investment in capital-intensive restructuring. (3)

In the end, the measure to start construction on a 700-mile stretch of fence was passed 80-19 (with only Sen. Edward Kennedy abstaining). (4)

This is a good first step. This is a problem at home that has gotten out of hand. This free flow of people illegally entering the country is a threat to our security and our resources. (4)

Trust me, I've heard all the arguments in the book. "They do the work Americans won't do" is my favorite. Have you asked Americans? Do you know they won't do it? Have you given them the chance to do it? (4)

Seventy-five percent of the drugs in the United States come from Mexico, while $80 billion is spent annually on the failed war on drugs. Illegal immigrants make up 30 percent of our prisoners, costing us $1.6 billion annually.(4)

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household. (5)

With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services. (5)

Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them. (5)

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.(5)

Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments. (5)

Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent. (5)

I believe that my significant amount of evidence proves that it is moral to deport illegal immigrants, they are a cancer to our society; causing debt where they come, and paying little for their troubles to our economy.

Citation (New ones for this rebuttal):
(1)http://usgovinfo.about.com...
(2)http://www.newswithviews.com...
(3)http://www.cairco.org...
(4)http://media.www.kstatecollegian.com...
(5)http://www.cis.org...
Debate Round No. 2
mscolorado

Pro

mscolorado forfeited this round.
MaxHayslip

Con

My opponent has not offered any rebuttals to my arguements, and nothing but a borderline rascist opening statement to argue off, i'll continue attacking the problems of illegal immigrantion within the United States on my terms.

Illegal immigration now makes it extremely diffiuclt for legal immigrants to enter the USA! (1)

For centuries not just decades, the Canada/US Border was a friendly place. Canadians wishing to drive over to visit friends, do some shopping, or even spend a few months could do so with relative ease. In fact, as long as you declared your reasons for visiting you could walk across the border! Especially the St.Stephen New Brunswick/Calais,Maine border. (1)

Now, to fly from Canada to the USA you need a passport. By September, 2008 you will need a passport to drive over the border; along with your drivers license. Permanent residents of Canada have it even harder. Just two years ago, a permanent resident of Canada could just drive over the US border by showing a drivers license, now they need to show a PR card too. (1)

The main reason why illegal immigration is unfair is because illegal aliens are a burden to taxpayers for several reasons. For instance, illegal immigrants are typically entitled to free social services. For example, hospitals and emergency rooms are obligated to treat all patients even if they can not or do not pay for it. Illegal aliens can receive welfare checks and food stamps. Sometimes, governments assist illegal immigrants with job searches and transportation to jobs. The children of illegal immigrants, who are often also illegal immigrants, are entitled to education thus overcrowding schools and decreasing the quality of the education. Furthermore, it is perceived that illegal immigrants do not pay any or as much in taxes compared with legal residents, thus they should not receive free social services. In truth, illegal aliens do pay at least some of the taxes that regular citizens and legal immigrants do pay. The actual statistics and numbers of what is not paid are impossible to calculate. (2)

Furthermore, illegal immigrants are attributed with job losses for legal residents especially for lower income jobs. In addition, higher crime rates are also sometimes associated with illegal aliens. Illegal immigration is even unfair to the illegal aliens, since they are politically and economically restricted. And finally if and when illegal immigrants are caught, these illegal aliens could be sent to jail and/or deported from the country, again at a cost to the taxpayers. (2)

Here are Ten Reasons Why (3):
1. Illegals working in many industries - not just those who do cleaning jobs - will work for far less than legal citizens, causing unfair competition for businesses that DO obey the law and employ only legal citizens.

2. Illegal immigrants are often paid under the table. This is tax fraud and it costs the U.S. Taxpayer billions each year - billions that are made up for in higher taxes for everyone, including corporate taxes.

3. Illegal immigrants are often not fully trained in U.S. safety standards, and frequently do not understand enough English to read printed safety regulations, causing a hazardous work environment.

4. Legal immigrants and the working poor are often most hurt by illegal immigrants who drive down wages in traditional low-wage jobs, which may cause a spike in increased need for welfare and unemployment benefits.

5. A vast majority of illegal immigrants do not pay any state or Federal income taxes. This has put a strain on local, state and Federal governments and has caused business taxes to rise to help maintain infrastructure such as hospitals, roads and schools.

6. Illegal immigrants are unlikely to report theft, corruption, harassment and abuse by other employees, because they fear being turned into immigration authorities, causing unsafe or illegal practices in your workplace to go unreported. Being unaware of these abuses can significantly increase your legal liability.

7. Illegal immigrants may be deported or otherwise return home at any time. That could cost business owners like you all the time and investment you put into training those workers.

8. A Federal raid on your business by immigration authorities that subsequently discovers illegal employees, and the resulting negative publicity that would cause to you and your business, isn't worth it.

9. Hiring illegal immigrants sends a signal to your employees and customers that you condone cheating and support the exploitation of other human beings. Do you?

10. Obeying Federal laws regarding hiring only legal citizens
is the ethical thing to do.

Behind many of the nation's millions of undocumented workers are someone else's documents. To get a job, illegal immigrants need a Social Security number, and they often borrow one. As victim Melody Millet is fond of saying, U.S. citizens are being forced to share their identities with undocumented immigrants to give corporate America a steady supply of cheap labor. (4)

Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don't know it. It is the dirty little secret of the immigration issue: By not dealing directly with the undocumented worker situation, the U.S government is actually encouraging identity theft. In fact, one can argue that the origins of the identity theft epidemic can be traced to the immigration issue. (4)

The scope of this problem is vast. Every year, nearly 9 million people pay their taxes using the wrong Social Security number. The name used on W-2 tax forms used by employers doesn't match the name on file with the Social Security Administration. There can be many reasons why -- a data entry typo by a human resources department, a woman changes her name after marriage and forgets to report it, or a man uses someone else's SSN to get a job. (4)

When it comes to the impact of illegal immigration, terrorism must be at the top of the list due to its potential to directly harm the greatest number of Americans. It is worth noting that three of the four terrorist pilots in the 9/11 attack were in the country illegally. 9/11 was a precursor. The next big incident could be far greater and kill many more Americans. (5)

A recent Homeland Security report, A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border, reports that in 2005 at least 850 people from countries of "special interest" were apprehended crossing the southern border. How many more successfully crossed is unknown. How many actual terrorists have crossed is unknown. We do know, however, that they are there - see Al-Qaida Operative Nabbed Near Mexican Border. (5)

By the way, "countries of special interest" is government-speak for terrorism conducting and sponsoring countries. (5)

As can be seen from the aforementioned studies and references, many illegal aliens are not your casual immigration violating, ID theft committing, law breaker. Many are recidivists – a.k.a. career criminals, like Juan Leonardo Quintero, who was deported after being convicted of indecency with a child, but who later came back and then just recently killed a Houston cop in cold blood, leaving a widow and five now fatherless children. (6)

In conclusion, i'd like to state that my many sources (and her lack of) shows that illegal immigration is currently a problem within the United States.

Vote for Negative.

Citations:
(1) http://www.helium.com...
(2) http://www.philforhumanity.com...
(3) http://www.scribd.com...
(4) http://redtape.msnbc.com...
(5) http://www.usillegalaliens.com...
(6) http://www.usillegalaliens.com...
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by kmb708 8 years ago
kmb708
Hey mscolorado... what is wrong with going through the process that the United States government has implemented to gain LEGAL CITIZENSHIP?? Is it that it's a long drawn out process that can take months and even years to complete?? your dang right it is! And you wanna know why? It's because our government hemorrhaging so many of its precious resources trying to fix this little problem called ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, that it kinda screws things up for the people that actually want to do it the LEGAL way. Yeah, It took my best friend 8 years to become a citizen. And her lack of citizenship cost her some dang good college scholarships. We can thank the sneaky ones that slip past boarder patrol for that one!

Additionally... Is anyone aware of the fact that there are bills in Congress that are trying to grant social security privileges to (and I quote) "illegal immigrants". I'm sorry but I just have to say... ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME!?! They don't pay taxes on most of their income, they cost us insane amounts of money in health care/ social programs, and someone in Cong. wants to give them social security benefits.... This, after it as already been established that the money that my hard-working little butt pays in to SS every month right now will not even be there when I am old enough to be eligible to draw from it..... Wow.
Posted by mmadderom 8 years ago
mmadderom
Oh, and getting caught here Illegally should automatically exclude you from coming here legally for 10 years.

Yep. We HAVE to get tough on this crap RIGHT NOW. The whole of Mexico would LOVE to move here. As long as we are lax on enforcing our own laws it will only get worse.

Reagan gave amnesty with the promise from Mexico that the illegal immigration would stop. Uh...it got 10X's worse. Now we have states that give drivers Licenses to illegals. Hell, it's EASIER to get one if you ARE illegal than if you are a citizen.(I'm not kidding) We give welfare benefits to illegals.

Why the F are my tax dollars going towards people who AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE in the first place? Worst is the prison population. I'm paying for some 20% of the prison population who were here ILLEGALLY when they committed their crimes. That's INSANE.

So, Hon, as you and your illegal boyfriend fill up your grocery cart while laughing at citizens of this country, please be aware that he is NOT the norm.
Posted by mmadderom 8 years ago
mmadderom
I don't get this at all.

So, hon, you are telling us that coming into this country illegally, and avoiding paying taxes so you can fill your grocery cart fuller is somehow something to be envied? I don't care how HARD he works...Al Capone worked harder than most anyone of his generation...

Sorry. You can have your illegal boyfriend all ya want, just do it in HIS country where it's LEGAL. Or let him go through the proper channels to come here LEGALLY. If he's not here legally, he should do 30 days in the county jail followed by being deported with the promise the NEXT time he's caught here it's a felony with a minimum of 3 years in prison.

GET IN LINE. We'll bring in what we need to LEGALLY handle the jobs we need filled.
Posted by the_conservative 8 years ago
the_conservative
Tis debate just says DONT VOTE FOR OBAMA
Posted by the_conservative 8 years ago
the_conservative
yeah this is stupid. What dont people understand about ILLEGAL? This makes me so mad ill tell u whats wrong with it,hmmmmmm, havent you seen the signs on store doors that are in Spanish? If they wanna come over why dont they do it legally?Ummm lets' see.... they are abusing the voting system here, yes they are hard workers, so why dont they shape up and do it in Mexico? Remember the days where immigrants didnt want to be hypenated Americans (ex. Polish-Americans etc.) they just wanted to be American, and they worked hard on learning to speak English. Now people who don't speak Spanish in the SouthWest find it harder to get jobs. Thats why you idiot
Posted by MaxHayslip 8 years ago
MaxHayslip
Your best chance was/is to do an LD Morality debate on Illegal Immigration.
Posted by Chuckles 8 years ago
Chuckles
colorado's argument is borderline BULLSHIT. she went and married a hispanic (possibly an illegal?) and now she won't believe that it's a problem.

Of course we'd get jealous. I wish i could benefit from the government without having to pay for it too. I have no problem with immigrants, i have a problem with illegal immigrants.
there may be a problem with the process of immigration to the US, but that doesn't mean i'm going to just idly smile as illegal immigrants take tax money. That is a problem to me.

but then again, i'm not married to one, so of course i'm probably racist, jealous, too wealthy, on a high horse, prideful, etc. MY BAD!
Posted by Harlan 8 years ago
Harlan
Colorado's opening argument is borderline racist.
Posted by MaxHayslip 8 years ago
MaxHayslip
Citation (If you provide evidence, could you cite it?):
(1)http://www.heritage.org...
(2)http://www.foxnews.com...
(3)http://www.freedomworks.org...
(4)http://immigrationcounters.com...
(5)James Gilligan, Violence: Reflections on Our Deadliest Epidemic, 2000, p. 195-196,
(6)http://www.globalissues.org...

I have continued arguements, but the limit wold not allow me to add them.

"so really my words aren't going to matter, just like yours isn't.... whats going to happen is going to happen, and there is nothing we can do about it, But I do think people should lay off the hispancs and stop being so jealous..."

We are not jealous, we are enraged. Our money pays for the care of illegal immigrants while they continue to work untaxed. We need to fix the problem of illegal immigrants before it brings the decline of our nation into sight. Yet again, Hispanics are not always illegal immigrants.

"yes they drive new cars, yes their grocery buggies are more full than yours, yes they smile a lot, and they are happy....but it is only because they works their asses off... so if you have a problem with jealous, change your ways if you envy them..... work harder.... BUT FOR GODS SAKE LEAVE THEM ALONE......"

You suggest that people work harder; although the problem is that most citizens cannot afford to live on the wages paid to illegal immigrants (They do not drive new cars or have "more full grocery buggies"). Illegal immigrants are hired because their extremely low hourly rage, and undying effort; although they take away American money, causing us problems in the long run.

In conclusion, I'd like to state that illegal immigration is a growing problem for America. If America is expected to sustain itself as a leading power in the world illegal immigration must be stopped.
Posted by MaxHayslip 8 years ago
MaxHayslip
Hey! I was looking at this debate and checked to see who you are... We live near eachother! I live in Birmingham.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by desertrose 7 years ago
desertrose
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by SoutherngentFL 8 years ago
SoutherngentFL
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by supremecourt101 8 years ago
supremecourt101
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by p1mp1na1n7eazy 8 years ago
p1mp1na1n7eazy
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by dbershevits 8 years ago
dbershevits
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by griffinisright 8 years ago
griffinisright
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by mmadderom 8 years ago
mmadderom
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Bitz 8 years ago
Bitz
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by frank_gore_is_da_best 8 years ago
frank_gore_is_da_best
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by MaxHayslip 8 years ago
MaxHayslip
mscoloradoMaxHayslipTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03