The Instigator
brokenboy
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0 Points
The Contender
Loserboi
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

in an undisturbed battle the fourth raikage would win against sasuke Uchiha

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/13/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,529 times Debate No: 12747
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (28)
Votes (4)

 

brokenboy

Pro

I will explain the rules using the first round so please don't post you argument but you can if you agree to my terms

the fight will take place in the land of iron where the kage meeting took place only this time the do not have any back up or interruptions

the fourth kage has his left arm
Loserboi

Con

I am assuming you start things off from your 1st round requests

If Raikage still has his arm, can Sasuke have Itachi's transplanted eyes since he technically does have them now.
Debate Round No. 1
brokenboy

Pro

yes he may
thank you very much for particpaiting in this debate

now I will start off my argument with the techniques of the raikage shown in the manga

1) LARIAT- this technique is used by the raikage when in his lightning armor he charges forward with tremendous speed and force and hits them with a blow so strong it is believed to blow away an opponents entire chest also counter attacking will be blocked by his armour
2) ELBOW- once the raikage has covered himself with his lightning armour he strikes with his elbow which dealt enough damage to stop jugo from continuing the battle (while his seal was relished)
3) LIGER BOMB- he grabs his opponent and smashes them using all his force into the ground head first this tequnice
was strong enough to break three or susanoo's ribs and no one has ever survived this based on his comrade Dauri
4) LIGHTNING OPPRESION HORIZONTAL- once in lightning armour he does a sideways karate chop increasing the amount of lightning chakra in his hand this move is strong enough to break one of susanoo's ribs and cut off the eight one of the eight tails horns
5) LIGHTNING ARMOUR-By wrapping his body in a layer of Lightning chakra the Fourth Raikage can electrically stimulate his nervous system and speed up his to reaction time faster to danger with this his reflexes are comparable to that of Konoha's Yellow Flash making it difficult if not impossible even for the Sharingan to keep up with him and push his physical prowess to the absolute limit allowing him to gain tremendous raw speed and monstrous power

now here are the techniques from sasuke that I find will not work on the raikage

1) amaratsu- I believe that this technique will not work due to the raikage's flicker ability which allows him to move short distances at light speed (short distances foot to the left) and so the ameratsu will not be able to hit him
2) chidori- it can penetrate the raikage's armour but did little damage and since the raikage is familiar to this move he has a advantage
3) fireball technique- since it is not a straight forward attack and is more of a widespread attack it most likely not cause any harm due to the raikage's armour
4) susanoo- since it takes time to complete it would not be an advantage also if the raikage can outlast that technique then sasuke is as good as dead because of the amount of strain it puts on his body

once again thank you for sharing your ideas if you need evidence let me know
Loserboi

Con

Rules when fighting a person with the sharingan
1) If it's 1 on 1 you must flee.
2) If it's 2 against 1 then take the back.
"You know what "If it's 1 on 1 you must flee" means right?" There is no way you can win"- Granny Chiyo the highly praised shinobi of the hidden sand village.

Sasuke because he now possesses Itachi's transplanted eyes he no longer feels the setbacks that the Mangekyou Sharingan tends to give to the user which is steady blindness, and on occasion bleeding from the eyes. It has been stated by Madara Uchiha and Itachi Uchiha, that the only way to acquire the perfect Mangekyou Sharingan is to implant the sharingan eye from a sibling.
"Itachi's left Mangekyou possesses the ultimate Genjustsu, then his right Mangekyou contains the ultimate Ninjutsu, The Amateratsu"- Zetsu

The references you made are from the fight with Sasuke and Raikage; when Sasuke had already exhausted a majority of his chakra killing Danzo the candidate for the position of the 6th hokage. At that time Sasuke could not have fairly fought with the Raikage because he was already feeling the effects that the Mangekyou Sharingan gives to the user after using Tsukyomi, Amateratsu, and Susanoo in unison. Sasuke was at a disadvantage from the start, his eyes were blurry and have been bleeding all day of course he could not focus on the Raikage's movements. When Sasuke fought Itachi, Zetsu made a remark saying Itachi's sight was getting worse and it was showing when he failed to dodge moves he could easily have dodged in the past. But since my opponent has made his into a fair fighting ground with Sasuke being healthy with full chakra his sight should drastically improve.

But onto Raikage's abilities, Raikage's abilities are a mixture of very advanced Taijutsu(hand to hand combat) and joining that with a lightning element. Raikages range is not long distance which does not play into his favor. Raikage's attacks have to be in close range and Sasuke just needs to make eye contact to trap the 4th raikage in the ultimate Genjutsu: Tsukyomi. The Raikage's personality is not calm, so he will continuously rush because his pride forces him to believe that he is always stronger which is shown when he gave up his left arm just to try to land a hit on Sasuke when they fought in the manga.

To the main point a fresh Sasuke with the transplanted Mangekyou sharingan in his possession makes Sasuke untouchable the strain on his body is no longer existent, the price of his brothers life for unspeakable power. Sasuke has multiple defense mechanisms which include the Amaterasu shield, and Susanoo. Raikage will have to bulldoze his way through all these fresh defensive mechanisms while keeping all his body parts intact. Amateratsu will burn anything it touches. 4th Raikage's abilities deals too much with getting his hands on the opponent it is just a matter of time before Sasuke either stares at him in the face and traps in Tsukyomi or Raikage burns off his hand again trying to bust through that defense. Raikage cannot run forever around Sasuke's defenses. Sasuke has the sharingan and copying Taijustsu and lighting based jutsu's are his specialty, its only a matter of time before the sharingan gets used to the movements just like the fight with Haku.

Tsukyomi can only be broken by a user with the sharingan or a person fixing the disrupted flow of chakra. Since Raikage does not possess either the sharingan and they are both alone in this fight, Raikage will be trapped in a seemingly endless genjutsu (Tsukyoumi alters the perception of time space for the person its being casted on) because nobody is there to disrupt the Chakra flow. Raikage will not be able to break the genjutsu on his own therefore making Sasuke the winner.
Debate Round No. 2
brokenboy

Pro

I will answer your paragraphs 1-1st paragraph etc

1) nothing to say I forgot about that
2) yes but in addition to that when susanoo is used its defense does not drop based on the users exaughtion also because of his lightning armour he should still be able to dodge the black flames because when they were fighting he seemed to get out of the way with great ease
3) yes but since they are inside the building (an enclosed space) where the kage meeting took place he does not have the disadvantage to move far also the lightning armour boost his speed so that it becomes comparable to that of the Fourth Hokage (what would he do without his armour) also the recklessness can be a weakness but it can also be a strength he has hugh amounts of endurance barely feels pain and look at naruto for example he never backs down and that is why he always wins also due to the raikage's massive anger towards sasuke his chakra level would boost

4) you ever wonder why he didn't do that in the first battle I'm just guessing but it think that due to the raikage's armour genjustsu might be ineffective or maybe even nullified also I think that in order for him to be fast enough to dodge the black flames that sasuke's sharingan would act the way it was when he was fighting lee in the academy he can see it he just cant react to it fast enough

5) yes but one of the reasons I think that the raikage may have the upper hand is because once he gets close he wont let you get away and so when you constantly being bombarded by close combat attacks it is quite hard to squeeze off something that requires alot of focus

now I want to point out some of the drawbacks to the eye jutsu's even though he does have itachi eyes these techniques still require hugh amounts of chakra and since he is not fully experienced the chakra toll will be even more

also as I was saying before speed is one of the main factors and since the raikage is incredibly fast he will be able to close distances in less than a second so I do not think that he would have time to activate anything big

also if both fighters were continuing on and on eventually sasuke would wear out faster than the raikage due to the amount of chakra sasuke's techniques use and simply because the raikage's chakra reserve is bigger he is alot like kisime the both have chakra equal to tailed beasts

thank you for your time and effort
Loserboi

Con

2) a shield of amateratsu cannot be avoided if one is using taijutsu he has to come in contact with the surrounding flames that surround Sasuke. Sasuke gets a spec of fire on raikages hands its over hand burns off, Raikage will be unable to form any more seals, thus destroying all possible chance of ninjustu.

3) Sasuke just has to surround the entire place with amateratsu, if the enclosed space is a problem it will exhaust his body but hey it's guaranteed to get even a little on the Raikage. Sasuke has enough chakra to flood the building with black flames and with the Amateratsu being perfect from transplanted eyes the focus is incredibly high no more stopped flames due to pain and blood from the eyes. How can you run around a entire area of fire without going through it. 4th hokage's jutsu was teleportation, Raikage's is incredible speed that resembles teleportation. The point I am trying to make here is if Sasuke floods the field with black flames at a distance where Raikage would be forced to bulldoze through it just to get to sasuke it's almost guaranteed flames will catch on him. Raikage cannot stop the flames from burning him other that possibly cutting off the burned body parts. Amateratsu is instantaneous when chosen to activate it.

4) The reason I am assuming is because Sasuke deals with the pain of having the Mangekyou Sharingan and dealing with the pain it comes along with, that it effects his focus. Having perfect Mangekyou takes away that strain and pain making Sasuke's perception a lot stronger.

5) If Sasuke's Amateratsu shield is up then Raikage attempts moves like Liger bomber he will be required to grab the black flames. Sasuke flooding the building makes the Raikage have to attempt the bulldoze through mid level range of flames to land his lightning chops, or elbows, or his charging attacks. What I am again trying to say is if Sasuke is at point A, he makes flames to effect point B, Raikage who is at point C has to go through walls of black flames (point B) to touch sasuke which at that time his body would have already started to be burned away you can't run through hells flames willy nilly, amateratsu is the most powerful ninjutsu. Sasuke will already feel that his flames has touched something and can probably turn fast enough to see a raging buffed up raikage trying to charge through the flames and meet him face to face to cast Tsukyomi. This fight should not drag on long, knowing Raikage's pride will not allow him to be running away from his opponent, he believes in strength not cowardice and will charge recklessly regardless of the situation at hand.

"naruto for example he never backs down and that is why he always wins" I clearly remember when Naruto did fight Sasuke and if I am not mistaken, Sasuke clearly won that fight even with Naruto's never give up attitude.

You can't beat a sharingan user one on one. Sasuke can not last out long with his jutsu but Raikage does not have the patience to wait for Sasuke to drain his chakra out.
Debate Round No. 3
brokenboy

Pro

2) the raikage doesnt use ninjutsu and so that is why he cut off his hand with great confidence and ease

3) as i was saying in my last argument he can travel short distances really quickly and will constantly be bombarding sasuke with attacks and since the raikage knows that sasuke's eyes are his stregth he will prbably start attacking in such a way that he will destroy sasuke's eyes also if he were to manage an ameratsu on the place it would require huge chakra amounts However he would most likely need to drop susanoo and he would most likely do this beacuse he would be over confident that this move would kill the raikage but the flames burn fairly slowly i think that the raikage even though he is being affected by the ameratsu would take that as an oppertunity to attack using on of his stronger techniques causeing deathly damage to sasuke but the raikage would still be able to survive due to amputationand if the technique was instantaneous why would the raikage be able to dodge it
(my comment below is a bit off topic)

you know what i think was really reatrded was why didnt he just take off the top layer of skin instead of taking off the entire arm also i think that what should have happend with the black flames is that it should have burned off the chakra armour around him before hitting the flesh
4) This electricity armour acts as a compliment to A's natural physical strength and speed to the point where not even the Sharingan should be able to keep up with his movements---taken from narutopedia
5) firstly the amaterasu is not the most powerful ninjutsu there is no actual eveidence to that claim seacondly last time i check the flames do not feel and so sasuke would pick up no reading that the raikage has passed through thirdly due to he raikage's incredible speed even if sasuke saw him he would not be able to react fast enough and certainly not with somthing that requires massive amounts of chakra such as Tsukyomi also if sasuke were to try to use Tsukyomi it would lead to his downfall beacuse i do not think that he would have the energy reserve to sustain susanoo get ready for a Tsukyomi and ameratsu one after the other therefore i belive that this plan is irelevent

yes but that was when he was alot weaker he has used the same thing on pain (who is alot stronger than sasuke) and defeated him

by sasuke constantly bringing out chakra to maintain his defenses fom the raikage's constant attacks he will be wasting extra chakra and so it will run out fast.

i think that sasuke will run out of chakra too fast and due to the raikage's incredible endurance, strength, and speed the raikage will be the victor

thank you once again for your time participaiteing
Loserboi

Con

Raikage does not move at the speed of light he will not kill sasuke in one shot with all those defenses lightening the blow. To inflict one attack will come with some burning from amateratsu if raikage even has to amputate one of his body parts it will reduce his effectiveness. A shinobi needs there hands to mold chakra so it does not matter if he does not use ninjutsu he needs his hands to use those lightning moves that requires chakra. Raikage does not move at the speed of light he can be caught by a sharingan user with full focus. Raikage will not run around susanoo he will try to beat that thing head on because deep down his pride will make him feel he is stronger. Sasuke has plenty of chakra to draw out a battle he did it with Danzo pushing his abilities to the limit in unison using all 3 powers the mangekyou sharingan provides. Raikage cannot beat sasuke alone with just taijutsu and keep his body intact. Sasuke might run out of chakra faster but the stupid relentless Raikage will probably have amputated his hand or leg by then trying to land a killer blow through a mountain of defenses. Sasuke is a Kage level ninja already, he proved that when he beat Danzo the 6th Hokage and when he beat Deidara the guy who beat the Kazekage. He will find a way to just look at Raikage in the face and drain his chakra to torture Raikage in his genjutsu. Raikage moving at that speed will cause exhaustion there is no way he can move around at that speed for a long period of time through blazing flames. Raikage the only jutsu we know he possesses is Taijutsu and that is not gonna beat Sasuke who can do every kind of fighting style available to a shinobi.
Debate Round No. 4
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
man i hate how i cant have another response
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
*more than 9 out of 5.
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
If Itachi was at peak condition w/out MS, he'd beat Orochimaru. He still has his Sharingan powers like prediction, hypnosis and non-tsukuyomi genjutsu, and he does have his ridiculous speed. In one of my debates, I proved that Itachi merited a speed ranking of 9 out of 5. Orochimaru's is only 4.5, just above Kakashi's (4) when Itachi came to Konoha and curbstomped him.
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Naruto's training for Sage Mode was mostly concentration, not chakra expenditure (if any at all). He was at full fighting capacity when he took on Pain. If Pain had been in peak condition to take on Naruto, he would have won.

Itachi quite possibly never had an opportunity to take out Madara at an age where he was strong enough. Remember, after training Itachi to kill the Uchiha, Madara disappeared until after Sasori's death. It's quite possible that he only emerged from the shadows BECAUSE of Itachi's disease, which made it safe for his presence to become known.

Orochimaru may not have been all that strong, but he was still a Sannin, and one-shotting him while terminally ill and exhausted is still an impressive feat.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
Actually, I retract my comment about Orochimaru being weak. He was a rather skilled shinobi, just not at the ranking of the best of the best. Remember that Itachi was only able to beat him due to MS haxx. I'd like to see them battle with Itachi not being allowed to use the MS.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
Provided Kishi doesn't milk the heck out of another needless Gai vs Kisame battle, we should see Sasuke's EMS in the next chapter.

Naruto had also used a ton of chakra. Keep in mind that he went to battle Pein in the midst of being trained to master sage mode. Pein didn't beat Naruto as the kyuubi would have activated one way or another (remember, it also activates when he is near death); Hinata's interfence only sped up the process. If he came into the battle at full strength, that would have just sped up the process of the kyuubi coming into play, which would have resulted in Naruto still eventually beating Pein, with probably less base-chakra to spare.

Itachi may have been suffering from a terrible terminal disease, but this was not always the case, meaning that if your suspicion about Itachi's true power is true, he had an opportunity at one point in time to take care of Madara. Since Madara is still alive, either Itachi failed or realized the fact that he wouldn't win in an encounter. Finally, we don't know how much the disease effected his chakra output.

And yes, Itachi was quite strong for his age, but his growth rate is obviously comparable to that of any 'Jeigan' in Fire Emblem (meaning he started out great, but ended up mediocre, possibly due to the disease inhibiting his growth). There have been many references to Sasuke (who started out much worse than Itachi) having surpassed Itachi (well, mainly from Madara anyway), in spite of being MUCH younger.

As for beating Orochimaru, looking at many of the antagonists in the second half of the manga, I wouldn't rank Orochimaru that high. This is the guy who lost to a Sasuke with merely a normal Sharingan and could barely hang with the old and senile 3rd Hokage.Itachi admitted that he wasn't powerful enough to beat Jiraiya (before there was any indication of him having a disease) and Jiraiya stood no chance against Pein, so it's pretty clear as to how weak Orochimaru really is.
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Itachi had to use the secret failsafe jutsu because he was suffering from the terrible terminal disease known as plot-itis. (That said, imagine a full-power Itachi going up against Minato... *shivers in fear of the universe being torn apart*)

Itachi was strong enough that his appointment as ANBU Captain went largely uncontested when he was only 13. At 21, he was powerful enough to defeat his Kage-level brother and one-shot a Sannin's ultimate form when he was suffering from termainl disease. Growth and training time does make a difference, especially with such powerful shinobi. Also, I doubt that Sasuke could ever be as strong as Itachi if one adjusts for age.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
Itachi is ridiculously fast , but still inferior to Madara in every aspect. Whereas Madara couldn't even maneuver when the 4th used the FTGT.

And yes, Madara wasn't at his peak, but was still well above Itachi. Why do you think Itachi had to use a secret failsafe jutsu in attempt to kill Madara, via Sasuke? If he were any way his equal, he could have taken care of Madara and prevented him from leading Sasuke down the wrong path.

I can't say for sure whether or not even adjusting abilities/training time changes anything as we don't know much about Madara when he was Itachi's age. Based on how Madara has praised Sasuke, you could probably make that argument for him.
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Oh, and Naruto didn't beat Pain at full power. He beat a Pain that had used up a ton of chakra curbstomping Konoha's top shinobi and grav-bombing it with his mind. That said, Pain did actually beat Naruto, even with all that energy expenditure.
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
lol. Hinata must not be paired with anybody. Her sheer incompetence and utter fail must be kept out of the gene pool.
I don't think Sasuke would curbstomp the Raikage, but he'd certainly defeat him.

Also, who else wants to see Itachi with Eternal Mangekyou, damn the plot? *raises hand*
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Vote Placed by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
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Loserboi
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vivalayeo
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