The Instigator
Darkmaff666
Pro (for)
Losing
56 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
70 Points

In Death Note..Yagami Light Became a shinigami

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/6/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 12,137 times Debate No: 3536
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (19)
Votes (27)

 

Darkmaff666

Pro

well just to start i will say that in the end of the series yagami did indeed die but....as the rules go....if you are to ever use the death note and write in it....you are not sent to heaven nor condemned to hell...so in the end it would only indeed mean he would become a shinigami......also to make my argument stronger the rules say when you die you become a mere nothing....yagami layed there and died.....misa amane ended committing suicide...and also mikami....he committed suicide and bled to death...this proves that they all become shinigami...and that a rule created by the maker of the note...lied about one rule...which is: "rule #8. The human who uses this note can neither go to Heaven nor Hell."....but they go to the shinigami world...
Logical-Master

Con

Despite the number of rounds this debate possesses, I will make this debate as swift as possible.

First, I'll prove that Yagami Light did not become a Shinigami. Then I will address my opponent's case.

First, lets observe the death note manga chapter 107, page 14, 15, and 18-19:

http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...

From reading these pages, you'll note that neither heaven or hell exist in the death note series. All humans go to MU (nothingness). In other words, they cease to exist. Furthermore, the Shinigami realm is never referred to as MU, so this is more evidence against my opponent's theory.

Next, if Light were to merely become a Shinigami, what would stop him from continuing his work as Kira? Absolutely nothing. However, the fact of the matter is that Kira's activities ceased upon Light Yagami's death.

Finally, for conclusive evidence, let us refer to all the Shinigami which the writer declared to exist; we shall refer to the special "How to read" chapter of the Death Note manga:

http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...
http://www.onemanga.com...

All of the Shinigami in the Death Note universe are listed in these pages, but you'll note that there is no mention of Light Yagami, Mikami, or Misa Amane. This is because they are NOT Shinigami.

Now in response to my opponent's case: My opponent says that Light, Mikami, and Misa all committed suicide, thus became Shinigami. This is clearly the non sequitur fallacy as merely committing suicide does not lead to the conclusion that they have become Shinigamis. Thus, this is not to be considered evidence of my opponent's claim.

Furthermore, what purpose would there be for the Shinigami king to lie about rule #8? Absolutely none.

In conclusion, my opponent has no evidence to support the idea that Light became a Shinigami. On the contrary, there is conclusive evidence to show that he hasn't. Given that this is the case, my opponent cannot uphold the resolution, and therefore cannot win this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Darkmaff666

Pro

indeed, this is well but i will attack....in the beggining before l died the shinigami named REM actually helped yagami lie..so what stops any shinigami to lie....and also to say this...in the anime...ryuk does not know a lot of what he is saying....in the episode where REM show's up and surprises RYUK with how A SHINIGAMI DIES and RYUK DIDNT know!!!...

so thus proving my point does RYUk know where or where not people go where they die...the evidence provided by my opponenet is helpful....RYUK srtangles yagami and kills him.....really there are many endings to this series of DEATH NOTE in the movie RYUK writes his name in his deathnote...same in thew anime.....but in the manga he seems to take matters into his own hands and kills him with them.....so really could there be a true ending to this anime...

and does evryone go somewhere when they DIE......Death Note: Fatally Fun Facts (Mysteries and Secrets Revealed!) (Paperback)actually tells us that they eventually go somewhere...this is written by the author....and it also explains a lot of things that you and the world would love to know...if you read it will explain a lot.........http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp... look it up if you'd like...and buy it....
Logical-Master

Con

If this were a Apollo Justice/Gyakuten Saiban game, this music would start playing during this round:

No one is saying that nothing is stopping shinigami from lying. My point is that there is simply not motivation for the Shinigami King to lie. In Rem's case, her motivation stemmed from the fact that she thought helping Light would save Misa Amane. My opponent cannot prove there is a motivation, thus there is no reason to consider his argument on this issue.

If my opponent is suggesting that Ryuk has no way of knowing where people go when they die, then it is my opponent job to prove this, as the burden of proof would belong to him in this situation. Just because Ryuk didn't know how other Shinigami could die, it does not mean he is somehow lying about heaven and hell not existing.

As for endings, it is only best that we refer to the canon ending. The only canon aspect of Death Note is the Death Note manga (which is what I cited).

Nevertheless, regardless of which ending we consider, there is never anything to suggest that Light Yagami becomes a Shinigami in any of them.

As for the book which my opponent cites, it is NOT written by the author of death note. On his link, it will list the author of the "Fun Fact book." Here is the author/artist which is listed: Fujie, Kazuhisa /Komen, Daniel /

Now the author of Death Note is none other than Ohba Tsugumi ( http://en.wikipedia.org... ), thus this book wasn't written by the author of Death Note.

Furthermore, if you'll note the list of questions which the book promises to cover, there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION CONCERNING HUMANS BECOMING SHINIGAMIS or HUMANS NOT BECOMING NOTHING AFTER DYING.

Add all of this to the fact that my opponent dropped most of my arguments in his most recent round, and I have conclusively dismantled my opponent's case. I await the next round, but it's already clear that your vote must go to CON. There's no way I'd post a link to that phoenix wright music vid otherwise. :D
Debate Round No. 2
Darkmaff666

Pro

to attack this i will only say this....how do shinigami's come to be.....originally they do have to come from somewhere so we can conclude that Yagami became a shinigami...

also my mistake on the author thing i meant to say the author of the book but i was a little busy writting papers..so my bad....also this is a fun debate no need to take it seriousi mean...c'mon it is only a theory and alos the book that i meantioned earlier has a page for what happened to yagami after he died we never know what happends to people when they die....who knows........
Logical-Master

Con

PRO: "To attack this i will only say this....how do shinigami's come to be.....originally they do have to come from somewhere so we can conclude that Yagami became a shinigami..."

My Response: This is clearly the non sequitur fallacy at work. How does us not knowing where Shinigami come from lead us to the conclusion that Light must be a shinigami? If shinigami came from mars, saturn, or neptune, how would that lead us to the PRo's conclusion? It doesn't.

PRO: "and alos the book that i meantioned earlier has a page for what happened to yagami after he died we never know what happends to people when they die"

I've scanned each chapter synopsis statement and I have found nothing to suggest this. Of course, even if I had, it would be PRO's job to provide this information. This is something which he doesn't do. I challenge PRO to provide a scan of the page which he is referring to so that we all may observe it.

Although I don't have to, I'll address something which I had found in the comment section. A commenter stated that Light Yagami probably lost his memory when he became a shinigami, hence being why he hasn't continued his role as Kira. First, there is no evidence to suggest this. Second, the evidence against this is that its implied that no new Shinigami come into existance. After all, the Shinigamis which I listed in round 1 were the Shinigamis at the beginning of the series as well. Since no new Shinigami was added to that list, there is now way Light became a Shinigami.

Furthermore, why would Rem care about Misa dying if this were the case? Rem could simply let Misa die and continuing looking after her in the Shinigami world? Heck, she could even restore Misa's memories with her death note.

Finally, extend the rest arguments made from round 2 to this round as PRO clearly drops them.
Debate Round No. 3
Darkmaff666

Pro

yeah...well..i just wanted to know what people thought well it seems that im am scrwed so yeah....next time i shal prepare
Logical-Master

Con

My opponent has conceded the debate to me. So yeah, there's absolutely no reason you should vote PRO. As I've shown in the previous rounds, Light is not a shinigami.

I thank my opponent for debating and I thank the audience for reading. Till next time.
Debate Round No. 4
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RiyuzakiFTW 3 years ago
RiyuzakiFTW
In an alterenet death note ending light became te god o the new world he asked Ryun to kill him and they go to the shinigami world light has to die of every way he killed everyone else so he tells Ryun he going to ask the shinigami king to make him one and the manga ends
Posted by BillBonJovi 3 years ago
BillBonJovi
Light Yagami became s Shinigami in the Death Note Anime, but not the Manga. It's all explained here: http://deathnote.wikia.com...
Posted by Shohane 5 years ago
Shohane
This isn't BLEACH; it's DEATH NOTE.
Humans cannot become shinigami.

Basically, Light Yagami died.
and THAT, dear fangirls and fanboys, is the bottom line.

If you read vol #13, then you know that the author said that he wanted to make 100% sure that all fans understand that after death, there is nothing, no possible reincarnations or anything of the sort.

Quoted Tsugumi Ohba in an interview (in vol 13): "Also, one thing that I didn't allow to be changed was the notion that "when you die, you become nothingness." Luckily, I was able to keep this part..."
Posted by Sergeant343 6 years ago
Sergeant343
SPOLIER SPOLIER DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU SEEN DEATH NOTE REWRITE:

I just watch the Death Note Rewrite special on youtube and it leads you to think at the end the the Shinigami Ryuk is talking to is in fact light, and he is similar in apearence, by the color and style, even the jacket he wears is similar, and here is some direct proof that Light did become a Shinigami the author of the Death Note Manga said at convention that you will be able to tell right of the back which Shinigami Light is in that special. Can you disprove that.
Posted by KIRA_OKASHI 6 years ago
KIRA_OKASHI
logic i have just on thing to mention .... in your statement in round 1 you stated "Next, if Light were to merely become a Shinigami, what would stop him from continuing his work as Kira?"
this is not, if you really think about it possible. The simple fact being rule that kills SHINIGAMI they can not kill to prolong human life . . . If Light had become a SHINIGAMI then he could not continue his work as Kira . . . By killing criminals he is definatly increasing the lifespans of humans... so then he would die after so many criminals died. If he had been tied to this rule while he was human(if you think that he became a SHINIGAMI) he would not died along time ago.

Onto another point i am pro the idea he became a SHINIGAMI because the DEATH NOTEs rules are stricktly centered aroung SHINIGAMI and those who use the DEATH NOTEs. SO when the final rule stated that humans will eventualy die and they go to MU i, under interpritation, and im sure others may percive it this was as well, belive that this rule only speaks of those who use the DEATH NOTE.

Finaly Makami would have gone to hell, saying it exists in the world of DEATH NOTE, and also saying he was damned to go there, because he was not the original owner of the NOTE, and in the last episode it said that the "First person to write in the NOTE on the human plain can neither go to heven nor hell." If i misquoted that i am sorry it may have said something else but i could swear i read that.
Posted by WhiteRaven 6 years ago
WhiteRaven
And I almost forgot, The rule stating that the user of a death not cannot go to heaven or hell is not actually written down in the notebooks either, in fact if Memory serves, Ryuk only wrote the rules explaining how the death note is used in the first place, and no others.
Posted by WhiteRaven 6 years ago
WhiteRaven
Actually, there are rules not written in the Death Note, including:
"The pages of this Notebook will not run out."

Also, about the shopping mall thing: If cars and truck do in fact exist(And I believe they do), there's always a possibility of some idiot driving into the shopping mall like an insane moron, and hitting you.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
I don't quite remember that and will check up on it when I get the opportunity.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
Sorry about the delay. Where was I? Oh yes.

In response to your first example, I don't believe it is applicable as the issue of "cannot" differs greatly from the issue of "can."

Now the second rule you produced would be a truthful claim regardless. If cars and trucks didn't exist, you wouldn't get hit by them when walking into a shopping mall. If they did exist, you wouldn't get hit. Since both possibilities are treated as equal, this would lead us to conclude that the implication of existence isn't necessarily an implication.

As to why it would mention heaven and hell, this is quite simple. This is a scare tactic that would prevent most humans from wanting to abuse a death note. After all, it is noted that a death note has a limited amount of pages, and having humans waste all of this pages is an undesirable conclusion.

As for whether or not he resides in the Shinigami realm, this still would not prevent him from getting access to a Death Note. Furthermore, all this does is bring us back to the matter of what motivation Ryuk would have to lie about MU.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
This is interesting. I do intend to respond to your well thought out points, but not at the moment as I have a previous engagement to attend to.
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Cliff.Stamp
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