The Instigator
liberalconservative
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Daddy_Warbux
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

institutions shouldn't have to change policies for the benefit of one group (islamic women-havard)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,478 times Debate No: 3319
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (8)

 

liberalconservative

Pro

first i would like to start off saying all people have the right to religion in the way that they should have the right to deny religion. all people in america have a religious standing whether its to believe or not. All guppies in one bag, they don't need there own because of there religious beliefs.
Daddy_Warbux

Con

By not changing their policies or making exceptions for religious minorities, they are effectively discriminating against these minorities. That being said, I'm not entirely sure what my opponent's first round argument is saying.
Debate Round No. 1
liberalconservative

Pro

but by making acceptation the institutions in question are undyingly dicriminating against those not belonging to the minority of which we are writing
Daddy_Warbux

Con

If they do not belong to this minority, then why are they trying to have the rules "bent" for them? If it is not for a religious purpose, then it is not discrimination.
Debate Round No. 2
liberalconservative

Pro

liberalconservative forfeited this round.
Daddy_Warbux

Con

I'd like to reiterate my point from round one: Not allowing religious exceptions to rules is the same as discrimination against that religion; it is the same as saying that the person cannot practice their religion. The only time this is not the case is when the practice in question can be physically harmful to others.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by liberalconservative 9 years ago
liberalconservative
"no matter what is written the people will do other wise"-Homer ok seriously people anyone should be allowed to practice there religion in public. yet in schools and in public spaces its not against the law(probably will be soon just like expression) but teachers and the populace look at it in such disgust, new laws allow teachers to penalize students with out reason... RELIGION. Me myself i am a 8th grader in middle school and it scares me that when i have free time in study hall(sometimes do this) i wip out my bible, either a teacher tells me to put it away, get made fun of because i take some thing seriously, or i get sent to the principal. The only reason i haven't been given a infraction(demerits sheet), detention, or suspension is because i got my parents involved they demanded i be able to practice my religion in free time. So now study hall(lab) keeps me busy. People need to be able to practice there religion with out persecution.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
I didn't agree... I think you misunderstood. I don't believe it happens like you said, and if it does it's most likely in places full of bigots anyways.

I also said I don't see the point in a chi... just read my posts! I didn't agree!
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
so then you agree, so much for freedom of religion.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Don't know what's up with the double posts... sorry...

Sadolite, from the context of what you say I know you are a very intelligent person, but it seems to me conservatives- and you- buy into propaganda that fits your own thoughts without really considering the source simply because the propaganda fits your theories, which you may have formulated by accepting propaganda of a similar nature in the first place.

The majority in America- wether it be whites, Christians, or conservatives- have accustomed themselves to appeal to the sense of victimization by the minority as a defense against being forced to accept the cultures and beliefs of others. Examples?

Conservative whites complain about Affirmative Action being reverse racism when in fact it has aided the careers of many minorities who would have otherwise not been given the same opportunity as the tons of whites throughout history who have monopolized opportunity. They appeal to the few cases where whites may have been disenfranchised, but in the process they negate the benefits AA has otherwise presented for the millions more cases of minority disenfranchisement.

Christians complain about anti-Chrisian laws that protect the religious freedoms of about 40% of the population, and in the process they negate the benefits it provides to people of religious faiths that have historically been disenfranchised by a country that was designed by and for Christians, while claiming religious equality.

Pro-lifers killing abortionists... need I say more?

"Patriots" supporting the invasion of another country- this is a major hipocrisy, don't you think?

I can go on and on, but I think you get my point. There is no "black and white" in this world, and the laws of the land reflect the complicated relationship between the hundreds of cultures joining as one in America. They are not perfect, but that does not mean they are "bad".
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Uhhh... sending a child to school with a bible? Why? Maybe THAT's why they're austricized- school is a place of learning... what would a child be doing with a book they can barely possibly understand in a place where they are not receiving direction on what they're reading? Maybe they are ridiculed in these cases because people's imaginations run wild as to the purpose of one sending a child to school with a bible. On the other hand, were this "child" in middle school or High School he/she would not receive the same treatment. Maybe you just live amongst bigots, but I have cousins and friends still in High School, I was a preacher when I was in High School and ran a prayer group, and those that I know that are still in school still partake in some of the same activities I led as a student (I am now Agnostic, but was a youth Pentecostal preacher and graduate of a theological school).

I have gone to school- and know students- in California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Louisianna, Florida, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Virginia- I have READ articles about what you are speaking of, but I have never experienced nor do I know any very religious people who have experienced it, though I have many religious family members (none of whom would take a bible to school without the ability to talk their way into being allowed to do so).

It is easy to attack the "liberal" society if you are taking exaggerated examples from the American media (they'd NEVER do that!) and apply it to everyday life in every school in the US, but reality is it's not as big a problem for your everyday religious person- this mostly affects extremists who would otherwise impose their religion on others (maybe that's why you would give a child a bible to go to school).
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Uhhh... sending a child to school with a bible? Why? Maybe THAT's why they're austricized- school is a place of learning... what would a child be doing with a book they can barely possibly understand in a place where they are not receiving direction on what they're reading? Maybe they are ridiculed in these cases because people's imaginations run wild as to the purpose of one sending a child to school with a bible. On the other hand, were this "child" in middle school or High School he/she would not receive the same treatment. Maybe you just live amongst bigots, but I have cousins and friends still in High School, I was a preacher when I was in High School and ran a prayer group, and those that I know that are still in school still partake in some of the same activities I led as a student (I am now Agnostic, but was a youth Pentecostal preacher and graduate of a theological school).

I have gone to school- and know students- in California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Louisianna, Florida, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Virginia- I have READ articles about what you are speaking of, but I have never experienced nor do I know any very religious people who have experienced it, though I have many religious family members (none of whom would take a bible to school without the ability to talk their way into being allowed to do so).

It is easy to attack the "liberal" society if you are taking exaggerated examples from the American media (they'd NEVER do that!) and apply it to everyday life in every school in the US, but reality is it's not as big a problem for your everyday religious person- this mostly affects extremists who would otherwise impose their religion on others (maybe that's why you would give a child a bible to go to school).
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
Send a child to school with a bible and see what happens, they will be ostricized and ridiculed by the school faculty and other students. It is very common place in many schools. There are countless examples of this should you wish to research it. I would not recommend my child taking a bible to school for just this reason. The school faculties have made bringing a bible to taboo. You can legally do so but you will pay a price for doing so.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
That's not true Sadolite. That is not true at all.
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
You are not allowed to carry a bible or read a bible in a public school even on your lunch break. I would hardly call that imposing religion on someone
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Sadolite, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the laws. The laws do not prevent anyone from expressing their religion, rather it prevents others from IMPOSING their religion on others. If a woman wears, say, a headscarf it has no effect whatsoever on a Christian.

The laws you are complaining about have prevented prayers, preaching, and other acts that are viewed as imposing by others- even if they are not religious or of the same religion (as with most Americans). Many of the laws you are referring to have been brought to the courts by rival Christian sects, ie. Jehova's Witnesses vs. non-denominational protestants vs. Pentecostal vs. Baptist vs. Mormon vs. Apostolic vs. Southern Baptist vs. Methodist vs. Presbyterian vs. Episcopal vs. Catholic vs. Eastern Orthodox vs. Coptic Christian.... get my point?
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 3 years ago
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liberalconservativeDaddy_WarbuxTied
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Vote Placed by Mangani 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by sadolite 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Daddy_Warbux 9 years ago
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