The Instigator
theta_pinch
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Defro
Con (against)
Losing
5 Points

intelligent design is creationism under a new label

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
theta_pinch
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/5/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 429 times Debate No: 45245
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

theta_pinch

Pro

CREATIONISM: The belief a divine being created the universe and life.

INTELLIGENT DESIGN: Some features of the universe and life are best explained by an intelligent cause.

CAUSE: synonymous with creator in this usage.

So intelligent design suggests certain features of the universe are best explained by an intelligent cause. One of those features is "the fine-tuned universe."The fine tuned universe argues that the univeres physical constants seem to be fine tuned for life. So we have two criteria for the intelligent cause:
1. Must transcend space-time(if the intelligent cause was subject to physical laws then it wouldn't have been able to fine tune the physical constants because it would never have a chance to form.)
2. Must be able to "fine tune the physical constants of the universe.

Now the question is what fulfills those criteria; the answer is very clear. A god is the intelligent cause. Only a god would transcend the universe and be able to manipulate the physica constants.

So I've established that God is the intelligent cause.

INTELLIGENT CAUSE-------GOD
CREATIONISM CREATOR---GOD(S)


Both ID and creationism claim that God created the universe. Therefore intelligent design is creationism under a new name.
Defro

Con

-I will be arguing that Intelligent Design is not Creationism under a new name, but a type of Creationism.

-I concede to most of the things Pro has stated, with the exception of a few important details.

-It has been established between both Con (myself) and Pro before the start of the debate that Creationism refers to all religion with a god in general. This can be testified by reading the first 2 comments in the comment section of this debate.

_______________________________________________________________________________________


-Intelligent Design can certainly be tied with Creationism because both ideas suggest that there are intelligent causes that has influenced the existence of certain features of the universe. Therefore, it can have implications towards religion, but that is not to say that Intelligent Design is a religion.

-Creationism covers a wide array of different and contradicting beliefs and religions, and this has been established between both Pro and myself before I accepted his debate. I believe that among these beliefs/theories, Intelligent Design is one of them.

-Most creationist beliefs base their ideas off of religious/sacred texts and must defend what are in these texts. Intelligent Design is based off of scientific and logical observations, and is not obligated to defend any part of the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.

-Therefore, I conclude by stating that Intelligent Design is a form of Creationism, but NOT Creationism itself.

-It is not fair to say that Intelligent Design is Creationism because it would be like saying that all fruits are apples because all apples are fruits.


Debate Round No. 1
theta_pinch

Pro

CREATIONISM: The belief a divine being created the universe and life.

"Intelligent Design is a form of Creationism, but NOT Creationism itself."

Creationism is the general belief a deity created life and the universe. To prove my case I had to prove that it was creationism. While I concede that there are different forms of creationism; all I had to do was show that it WAS a form of creationism which con concedes to.

"that is not to say that Intelligent Design is a religion."

Creationism itself isn't a religion so this doesn't affect my case.

"Most creationist beliefs base their ideas off of religious/sacred texts and must defend what are in these texts. Intelligent Design is based off of scientific and logical observations, and is not obligated to defend any part of the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc."

While it is true that most creationists base their belifes off of sacred texts that is not a requirement of creationism so my argument that intelligent design is creationism still stands.

CONCLUSION
My argument has not been successfuly refuted and con (technically) conceded in the first quote.
Defro

Con

Hmmmm........

So I asked my Biology professor and this is what he said about your arguments:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ID is a creationist paradigm, because it does invoke God. Please remember that ID is fine with microev, speciation, natural selection, and an earth that is 4 billion or so years old.

However, it is not Creationism - because most people tend to use that term to refer to the Young Earth Creation paradigm. And ID is definitely NOT YEC.

I note that in the first line of his quote, he has defined creationism as a belief that a divine being created the universe and life. If that's all he means, then fine, ID is a from of creationism.

Keep asking questions - that's how we learn!

--Mr. E
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I guess I lose this debate because I misunderstood Pro's position on the subject. Pro's definition of creationism is different than the norm and since the beginning of the debate I was thoughtlessly under the impression that his definition was no different from the others.

I am sorry that I did not put up much of a fight. I just felt bad for you because your last debate was ruined and sabatoged by legodude123 (who is back as legodude1234).

I will say this though: there is no point in instigating this debate because you would always win. If your definition for creationism is the one you stated, then the intelligent design definately is creationism. It's like starting a debate saying "A dog is a dog because it is a dog." The poor lad who accepts your challenge will obviously lose. Of course it is his/my fault for accepting the debate in the first place.

Nevertheless, Pro won. Vote Pro!
Debate Round No. 2
Defro

Con


The snow glows white on the mountain tonight
Not a footprint to be seen
A kingdom of isolation, and it looks like I'm the Queen
The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside
Couldn't keep it in; Heaven knows I've tried

Don't let them in, don't let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know
Well now they know

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore

Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say
Let the storm rage on
The cold never bothered me anyway

It's funny how some distance
Makes everything seem small
And the fears that once controlled me
Can't get to me at all

It's time to see what I can do
To test the limits and break through
No right, no wrong, no rules for me,
I'm free!

Let it go, let it go
I am one with the wind and sky
Let it go, let it go
You'll never see me cry
Here I stand
And here I'll stay
Let the storm rage on

My power flurries through the air into the ground
My soul is spiraling in frozen fractals all around
And one thought crystallizes like an icy blast
I'm never going back, the past is in the past

Let it go, let it go
And I'll rise like the break of dawn
Let it go, let it go
That perfect girl is gone
Here I stand
In the light of day
Let the storm rage on
The cold never bothered me anyway!




Debate Round No. 3
theta_pinch

Pro

So you watched the movie frozen?
Defro

Con

Yeah it was great!
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
@theta_pinch
I'm sorry. If my Biology Professor agrees with you than I'm going to have to agree with you as well. The debate goes to you!
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
Ok. I will submit my post tomorrow or the day after.
Posted by theta_pinch 2 years ago
theta_pinch
All religion with a god in general.
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
@theta_pinch
Before I accept. I would like to ask the you out of curiosity that when you address creationism, are you specifying one god (ie. God), or are you addressing all religion with a God in general?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by SeventhProfessor 2 years ago
SeventhProfessor
theta_pinchDefroTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Let it Go! Let it go!
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
theta_pinchDefroTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
theta_pinchDefroTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Con conceded this debate. Doing so graciously nets him conduct, though Pro did nothing wrong conduct-wise. As always, happy to clarify this RFD!