The Instigator
jackgilbert
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
samikshya
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

is God real?

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/23/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 563 times Debate No: 106084
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

jackgilbert

Pro

God is real. If God did not create the earth then who did? Life is too complex to create itself. Something can't come from nothing. That's how we know that God exists, and he is how something came from nothing.
samikshya

Con

I don't think god really exist. It is a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes.So, we can say that it is just a belief or a faith that by remembering god we can have our things done successfully. We know that sometimes miracles do happen and most of us believe that it is because of god but there are many scientific reasons behind such miracles. How can we believe god when we have not seen it . It is just the teachings and sayings of our forefathers. So, I think that instead of believing in god and praying for being successful in life , we should have faith in ourselves and belive in ourselves which will definitely lead us to success and we can earn the greatest joy of our life. if god had really existed then the victims who have not done anything wrong would have been punished as god is known to save the good ones. So, at last all I want to say is god do not exist but faith do exist.
Debate Round No. 1
jackgilbert

Pro

There are a couple of questions that I have that I would like an answer for.
1. If God did not create the earth, then who did?
2. How did something come from nothing?
3. What is a theory that explains how we are all here?
4. What evidence is given to prove God does not exist?
Now to jump into my argument. My opponent states that we cannot believe in God because we have not seen him. This is an ad ignominiam fallacy which is in other words an appeal to ignorance. It states that just because you have not seen something means it doesn't exist. Have you seen China? Have you seen a billion dollars? Do these still exist even though we cannot see them?
My opponent then mentions that miracles have been scientifically answered. If this statement were accurate, then how can water turning into wine be scientifically answered? How can sicknesses being healed within seconds be scientifically answered?
My opponent then makes a contradiction in the argument. My opponent says that God does not exist because we cannot see them, then later in the argument, it says that faith exists. Faith is just the opposite. Faith is believing in the unseen. So ultimately saying that We can't believe in something that hasn't been seen, but you can believe in something that has not been seen. This is a contradiction.
My opponent then says that evil disproves the existence of God. This is not true. The whole reason evil exists is because of us. We are all sinners. Because we sinned God sent his son to die for us on the cross to pay for our sins. God has a purpose for keeping evil around. We don't know it. But he has a purpose. And one day, all evil will be destroyed for good.
My question then remains, what explains the existence of this universe?
samikshya

Con

How can someone prove that god has created us? We have not got any proofs or anything which make us believe that god exists. We are living in the 21st century and this world run under the development of science and technology , so how can we still believe in god without any proof? Taking about our creation in this world, no one really knows who created us but I think it's also not right to blindly believe that good created us.
My opponent says that just because we cannot see them doesn't mean we cannot exist. But we have seen China. We have seen the chinese people and we also know that it is the most developed country not because of God's boon but because of the hardwork they've done.
My opponent says that we are all sinners and god is keeping the evils around for purpose but it has been 4.6 billion years since earth has been created but still the evil has not been destroyed.
We used to believe that earthquake occured because of god's will but now there are many scientific reasons behind it.
We don't need to believe in god to live a good life. If god had really created us then all of u would have a good life and no one would have to starve, suffer or die everyday.
There are many reasons how the universe was created. Like "About 13.7 billion years ago, the big bang created a big mess of matter that eventually gave rise to life, the universe, and everything." But all we have heard god creating universe are the stories told by our grandparents.
Debate Round No. 2
jackgilbert

Pro

You said that we cannot see God so he doesn't exist. I could say that because we have never seen the Big Bang explosion it doesn't exist. If you believe we have to see something to confirm its existence, then you have believe that air doesn't exist, the center of the earth doesn't exist, and molecules don't exist. If you say otherwise it is a contradiction. You can't say that you have to see something for it to exist, then believe in something you have not seen. Let me begin my argument by saying that there are many things that we believe in that we have not seen. For example, no one in this world has ever seen a molecule. Yet we believe they exist. Scientists claim that because there is so much of this universe that we have not explored, that there is over 100 billion species that we have not seen. There is no evidence, yet we believe they exist. It just shows to prove that just because we have not seen something does not mean that it doesn't exist. Now there are two theories that state how this world was created. Both have not been seen, but this world had to come from somewhere, so you have to look at which theory makes more sense. lets begin with The Big Bang theory. This theory states that something came from nothing, and this something caused an explosion that created this world we have today. First off, this theory contradicts two famous laws of science. The Law of Conservation of energy, and the Law of Conservation of matter. The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The Big Bang theory states that energy was created. Energy can't come from nothing. The Law of conservation of matter states that matter can't be created or destroyed. The Big Bang theory states that matter appeared from nothing. Both of these laws say that something can't come from nothing. The Big Bang theory states that something can come from nothing. These are contradictory. The next question people ask is, "How can God come from nothing?" God wasn't created. He has always existed. He is the reason we are here. God is the one who created all of the energy and mass that is on the earth. God made it where the mass and energy can't be created or destroyed. God does is an exception to these laws because he is the intelligent creator. God is all powerful, he is not bound by any scientific laws because he is the creator. The question is then, "Why can't the Big Bang theory be an exception to scientific laws?" The answer to this is because the Big Bang theory does not involve intelligent design. The Big Bang theory belief says there is no one amazing that created this world other than chance probability, and nothing. The problem with this statement is that these things aren't creators. There is no way that nothing could have created this complex, amazing world we have today. This now goes on to the complexity of this world. Look at what is in this world. Look at microscopic organisms. The tiniest things on this universe. Look at the bacterial cells. They have cytoplasm, ribosomes, chromatin, mitochondria, nucleus, DNA, plasma membrane and many, many more. Look particularly at the DNA. It has been scientifically proven that if you were to write out all the information of a tiny sample of DNA, than you would have a pile of books 500 times higher than from here to the moon. That's a lot of information. Look at the plasma membrane. It job is to protect the cell and regulate the substances that come in and out of the cell. It is composed of a phospholipid bilayer which is the main substance that the plasma membrane is composed of. If something were to try to enter the plasma membrane, the plasma membrane would contract until the substance is removed. These are just two parts of the simplest microscopic organisms yet they are still extremely complex. And that's just microscopic bacteria. I could go on and on about animals, the ocean, sea creatures, caves, planets, black holes, there is so much complex stuff that is in this world, most of it we haven't even discovered. This all CAN'T BE A PROBABILITY. It can't come from nothing. Complex life instead points to an intelligent designer that created this amazing world, and specifically designed each and every thing, substance and life form that is on the earth. You also said that if God were to exist, then why is there evil. The answer is simple. He has a purpose. What do you think the world would like like if everything was perfect? It would seem nice for a while but then what would happen is that we would think that we don't need him anymore. Evil is there to show us our need for God and we are not perfect. Living in a perfect world would change our mindset into thinking that we our good by ourselves.
If you still don't except the fact that God is real then so be it. But there is no reasonable explanation for why the world is here other than intelligent design. The reason a lot of people don't except that God is real is because excepting this would mean that they are sinners. And lets be honest, no one wants to be told that they are sinful. But it is true. That is why God sent his son to die on the cross and save us from our sin. He loved us that much to sacrifice himself for us. This is why God is real, and he is the only possible way that this amazing universe was created.
samikshya

Con

If you really think that the big bang theory does not exist then, you probably mean that Georges Lema"tre, Edwin Hubble and other scientists are fools to have researched about the big bang theory, right? Big bang theory is the process of universe expanding and we do not know how the energy that created the universe came from but we can't say big bang theory is wrong. The big bang theory does not explain everything on how the universe was created but neither does god. You said that air does not exist but if there was no air then we would have died . We can feel the air that is why we know it exist. Molecules exist because Albert Einstein has proved it. But no one has proved gods exist, has they?
You think that god is the greatest of all but you don't that in some of the developing or underdeveloped countries like Nepal, many women are tortured in the name of god. You might not know but there's a bad custom called chaupadi custom where the women's are not allowed to worship god and goddess when they are on their periods and they are bound to stay on a shed where they are raped , they even die of animal attacks and many other. If god had really existed then there would not be any of these bad customs which are prevalent in our society. Everyday in our country Nepal, many people worship god and goddesses for their long life and prosperity but still they do not get the things they wish for . But if god had really existed then he would not let these things happen.
And talking about the origin of the universe, everybody in this world needs to have an origin. Likewise how the universe was originated, god might also have originated in the same or the other way. The universe was originated 13.5 billion years ago but we don't know when was god created. If god had really existed then god would have vreated the universe billions and trillions of years ago, right?
You said that evil is there to show us our need for god but evil is there so that we can have faith in everything we do and strive for success.
Debate Round No. 3
jackgilbert

Pro

Let me start by bringing up two contradictions brought up by my opponent. At the beginning of the debate, my opponent said that if you can't see something it does not exist. Then I said that we can't see molecules, so from your assumption they don't exist. Then my opponent said that even if you can't see something, if you prove it, than it exists. Molecules can't be seen, but my opponent believes they exist. This is the first contradiction in that my opponent said that if you can't see something, it doesn't exist, but molecules are unseen, but my opponent says they exist. Then my opponent contradicts herself again in saying that if you can't prove something, than it doesn't exist. My opponent says that we don't have all of the answers to the Big Bang theory, but we can't say isn't real. That means we can't prove it. But my opponent says that if we can't prove something, then it doesn't exist. So my opponent is ultimately saying the Big Bang theory isn't real. But my opponent believes the big bang theory exists. This is the second contradiction in that my opponent is saying that the Big Bang theory is real, but it isn't. These are the two contradictions my opponent said.
Now Let me take a step back in this debate and look distinctly at what the Big Bang Theory is saying step by step and I will show it is impossible. The Big Bang theory a belief that states that the universe expanded and formed the world. Where did the universe come from? surely you would say from an unknown source of energy. Alright, then where did that energy come from? The answer is then from another source of energy. Where did that come from? The answer is then it came from nothing. The problem is nothing can't create something. The probability of life coming from actual material in the exact perfect position creating the simplest life form is equivalent to the probability of drawing a royal flush in poker 19 times in a row. Basically close to impossible. If the probability is this low for material to create life, how can nothing create life. It is impossible.
Now lets look at intelligent design. The first question I get is where did God come from? God wasn't created. God has always existed. This is the one miracle you have to believe in otherwise, everything is answered. How complex life was created, how something came from nothing, and how this whole universe was created. With the universe creating everything, you have to believe nothing created something, something created energy, matter, life, the universe, and somehow caused this universe to expand somehow causing the universe to create complex life and every single complicated process, function, and criteria of everything living thing, matter, and all of the unknown, and miraculously self sustained itself for such a large amount of years and still exist today. I counted about 12 impossible miracles that the Big Bang theory is stating. It is just impossible. If you still believe in the big bang theory, then tell me, how did all of this come to pass. I want physical proof that all of this happened. With God, he is the intelligent designer that created this universe. The first law of science states that science cannot prove anything only disprove. God has not been disproven. He has not been proven either, but because nothing can be proven, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST. I have already shown that the Big Bang theory is not possible, so now show me, what scientific evidence shows God does not exist.
My opponent states that if God existed, then there should not be evil. God has a purpose for keeping evil around. One, God has evil around to show our need for him. We live in a fallen world with evil in it, and when God destroys evil once and for all, it will show how amazing he is. The reason it has not been destroyed already is because God will not return until all of the nations have had the chance to either accept or deny him. Right now, there is close to 600 tribes, nations, or groups of people that have not heard about God. If God returned now, it would mean that these many people would not be saved. This would not be fair to them. When God returns one day evil will be destroyed. You said that the universe has been around for 4.6 billion years so why hasn't God returned yet? I am a catastrophist so I believe the world can be as young as 7000 years old. So prove that the universe has existed for 4.6 billion years.
To summarize my argument, my opponent has provided absolutely zero evidence to how the Big Bang theory is possible. My opponent has not explained how life is so complex coming from nothing, how the universe expanded, and why God is not real. Even if the spectators of this debate believe in the Big Bang theory, you still have to vote for me as the winner of this debate because I have addressed and answered all questions, provided evidence for each, and refuted the other side of the debate. While my opponent has not provided any substantial evidence, has not answered some, if any questions required to prove the Big Bang theory, and has contradicted herself multiple times providing confusion on what my opponent actually believes. All my opponent has said is that the universe expanded causing the Big Bang, but my opponent has not explained the process whatsoever of how this happened. God is real, and anything my opponent brings up in the final argument can be answered in any of my arguments. I would like to thank my opponent for a great debate and I urge the voters to vote for the affirmative.
samikshya

Con

Let me tell something to my opponent at first, all these air, water, molecules, atoms etc exist because we feel air, we drink water, the objects like books, water etc are made up of tiny particles which are molecules and atoms. We know it because science proves it. The subject Science is there to prove that God does not exist. I am Hindu and being bounded by social rules and regulation I also have to believe to believe in God which is nothing but just a figure. We are taught in such a way that when we are in trouble we always seek to God for help. But we don't know that by calling God for help, we are empowering ourselves and making us able to tackle the problems we have. God is only BELIEVED to be the SUPREME BEING but IS NOT. That is why it is always believed but does not exist. It is just the principle object of faith.
If God had really created us then who created God? The Earth was created by the Big Bang and Humans came from evolution.These Gods and religion came long time ago because people wanted an explanation for life but now we have science.Science gives a clear definition and description of everything unlike the people talking about the existence of God.God was created just to explain the curiosity of the people who wanted an explanation for all their existence but now the existence of God has been rooted in their minds so deeply that they won't believe that God does not exist until it is proved by science.
Taking about the Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaitre had proposed a model for the origin of the universe which became the Big Bang theory.The Big Bang theory explains the origin of universe with key idea that the universe is expanding. In the past the universe was denser and hotter.All of the space was contained in a single point which is called as the inception of universe. After the initial expansion the universe freezes, that allowed the creation of sub-atomic particles, consisting of protons,neutrons and electrons. The majority of atoms formed were Hydrogen along with Helium and traces of Lithium. Huge clouds of these primal elements later fused through gravity to form stars and galaxy. The massive elements were synthesized either within stars or during supernova. Hence, the Big Bang theory does not produce the initial condition of the universe, but instead it describes the general evolution of the universe. The Big Bang theory is based on Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity. This also takes into consideration the homogeneity and isotropy of of space. It was Edwin Hubble who discovered that distances to remote galaxies were firmly correlated with their redshifts. According to Hubble, all observable areas of the universe are receding from each other. Once there were two theories for explaining the expansion of universe but with the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation, The Big Bang theory was confirmed. The launching of Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite showed that 99.7% of the energy of the universe was released with the first year of it's evolution. This confirms the Big Bang theory, which proposes that the universe originated from single violent explosion of a very minute amount of matter of high density and temperature. So, this is the creation of the Big Bang theory which gives clear explanation about he evolution of universe unlike the presence of God which we blindly believe on.
My opponent has also not given his views for the physical as well as mental torture given to girls in the underdeveloped countries like Nepal.And on top of that he says that God exist and is real and created all of us. All I want to say my opponent that God didn't created us . We were created by evolution that is why we are imperfect. If God had created us then, we all would be perfect.
At last, I want to thank my opponent Jackgilbert for the wonderful debate and request the voters to vote for me and my debate.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by jackgilbert 6 months ago
jackgilbert
So what you are saying is that God comes into existence only after he has been proven. Interesting.
Posted by canis 6 months ago
canis
" Life is too complex to create itself. Something can't come from nothing. "
My TV is too complex to be created by me or anyone I know...Anyway "pictures" on the screen cant come from nothing..So a god must exist..
Posted by Surgeon 6 months ago
Surgeon
Really these religious arguments are desperate. They amount to "despite not being an Astro-physicist, I know enough to state that there are no acceptable models of the Universe, so therefore a god did it". A god is bound to work for you if you accept cosmic genies can make Universes appear through magic incantations (This can never be falsified, magic solves all hard problems, right). Only trouble is it"s false, and any attempt to construct a valid god concept ends in failure given the inherent contradictions in such a concept.
Posted by asdfghjkl00 6 months ago
asdfghjkl00
The Big Bang Theory also have evident flaws and these are also stated by other people. God hasn't been witnessed by you so does the Big Band theory. God is felt by those religious people. The story of religion wasn't created. If you're asking which, what, or who created God? Well who, which, what created those protons, neutrons etc. where the universe came from. God, the religion, the bible had supporting facts where history information is connected. There are instances that just can't be explained by science. yea, religious people have this faith that isn't easily changed since we, experienced his presence and felt god's presence. btw God is not a magical being. He is far way more than that
Posted by potato_me 6 months ago
potato_me
Ok, well if God created all of us than how was god created? The earth was created by the big bang and humans came from evolution, you say that just because you don't see something doesn't mean it's not real, well what if I told you there was an elf living in a teapot on the moon... sounds kinda insane, right. Religion was created a long time ago because people wanted an explanation for life, but now we have science.
Posted by RichardCarter 7 months ago
RichardCarter
Here's how the universe is created, mkay?

Quarts came. Protons and Neutrons came together. Electrons eventually came with those Protons and Neutrons to create gas. The gas gets closer together from gravity and creates a star and many more. We were just a ball of flaming rocks until another ball of flaming rocks hit us and it's own damage created the moon, and it all goes from there. How do you refute this?
Posted by Surgeon 7 months ago
Surgeon
You are just presenting arguments from ignorance.

Just because you personally cannot imagine alternative scenarios, does not mean that therefore a magical being exists, which can poof Universes into existence. It just means you have a failure to imagine alternatives. Add to that the paradox inherent in the concept of gods and the other failures in your assumptions (you beg the question by asking if not god, then who? Assuming in your premise it has to be a "who"), leaves your argument full of holes.
Posted by missmedic 7 months ago
missmedic
How do you know? Where did you get this knowledge?
No votes have been placed for this debate.