The Instigator
jackgilbert
Pro (for)
The Contender
FanboyMctroll
Con (against)

is God real?

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Debate Round Forfeited
FanboyMctroll has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 144 times Debate No: 107737
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

jackgilbert

Pro

For the first round, please just accept this debate, and arguments will begin next round.
FanboyMctroll

Con

God does not exist, he is a figment of the imagination of delusional people with mental illness. God is no different than Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny.

People who can't cope with life need a crutch, a shoulder to lean on, religion provides that crutch. The whole religion topic is just a cult.

Science has shown us that people who believe in nothing are mentally ill.

Fanboy out (mic drop)
Debate Round No. 1
jackgilbert

Pro

Atheists say that no one can prove that God exists, and they're right. But I say no one can disprove Gods existence. But in order to have this debate we need to look at the available evidence, and that's what we're going to do. Most people believe that the world began about 5 or 6 billion years ago in an event known as the Big Bang. Within 3 minutes 98% percent of all the matter to ever exist had appeared. They believe that this explosion came from nothing, but in our lives, we never see something come from nothing. But Atheists want to make a small exception to this rule, that is the universe and everything in it. Now the thing is, nothing can't create something. so if there is no supernatural being, no God, then there had to once be nothing, which means there would still be nothing. That is clearly not the case so there has to be a God that is the result of this universe. Theists (people who believe in God) believe that God created the world in 6 days. We believe that in the Beginning God created the Heavens and the earth. Everything started when God uttered the famous words in Genesis 1 " Let there be light. " God then goes on to create the earth, sea creatures, animals, plants, and everything that you see on this earth. The thing is that because God is the only all powerful being in this universe, he is the only one to be able to create this earth. You see this whole time the Bible had it right, and science had it wrong. No one has dis-proven God and no one can avoid the fact that something can't come from nothing. So I ask, if God did not create the world, who did?
FanboyMctroll

Con

The Big Bang happened around 13.8 billion years ago, which is thus considered the age of the universe. After the initial expansion, the universe cooled sufficiently to allow the formation of subatomic particles, and later simple atoms. Giant clouds of these primordial elements later coalesced through gravity in halos of dark matter, eventually forming the stars and galaxies visible today.

Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.

If God can make plans and think logically, then, logic is an arch-power that encompasses God and gives reason for god's existence. I.e., God, without logic, could not do any creating nor planning. This appears to refute the idea that God could be the creator of logic. If logic was a precursor to God, then, God is not the sole Creator, but merely a side-effect of some logical process. If, in order to avoid this problem, you state that there is no logical reason why God exists, then it is more likely that there no logical reason why the Universe exists, and that instead of assuming that the organisational force is a 'god', it's simpler and more rational to assume that it is the universe itself. It appears that whether God exists for logical reasons or not a fundamental contradiction occurs. The only answer is that creator-gods cannot possibly exist. Atheism is more logical. This is also true if God is placed "beyond logic". Doing this puts God into the territory of irrational fantasy. To retreat into the corner where logic itself is denied, god-believers have admitted that there is no logical basis for their belief. And if it is said that Human logic is incapable of realizing such metaphysical truths, then this also undermines any argument that can be made by one human to another, for the existence of god.

1.No particular conclusion can be drawn from the belief that "everything has a cause". The cause might be something atheistic, automatic, non-conscious, etc. If "everything has a cause, therefore God exists" is a leap of faith that rests upon assumption. Why not, instead, state that: "everything has a cause, therefore karma explains everything?". Additional assumptions are required in order to draw a conclusion from the argument that "everything has a cause".

2.If god-believers say that 'everything must have a cause' and state that this means that god exists, then, they have missed a part of their declaration out. Their true belief is that "everything must have a cause, apart from God". The term for God as the cause of everything is the 'first cause', so, this is the same as saying "everything must have a cause, apart from the first cause".

3.God isn't a simple thing; it has thoughts, motivations (to create, to love, etc), it has powers, imagination and its thoughts are themselves ordered logically and coherently so that it can plan things and think about things in a sensible way. In short, God is quite a complicated being.

The argument that there must exist a first cause of everything is open to serious doubt as long as we adhere to any simple notion of cause, irrespective of whether the universe is infinitely old, or had a definite beginning in time
Debate Round No. 2
jackgilbert

Pro

Before I go into my opponents arguments, let me give an argument for God's existence.
p1 Everything that is in motion must have something that set it in motion
p2 the universe is in motion
p3 there must have been something that set the universe in motion
p4 the only all powerful force that does not have to be set in motion is God
p5 God set the universe in motion
C Therefore, God exists

My opponents quotes Steven Hawking on how the universe can come from nothing, here is the following quote:
"Because there is such a law as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is why we have something instead of nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Steven Hawking.
However, John Lennox, a philosopher of science and a mathematician has pointed out that there are not one, not two, but three errors of logic contained in that single statement and it all comes down to circular reasoning. Hawking's is basically saying that the universe exists because it needed to exist, and therefore created itself. As it can be seen that this type of logic leads nowhere except in a circle. It would be like me saying this. If I tell you that burgers are the best tasting food because no food has ever tasted better, you would look at me and say I haven't proven anything, and you would be right. Although we don't immediately realize it, Hawking's is doing the same thing.
For my opponents argument of logic is based off of the statement that I said that God has no reason to exist. I never said and to clarify I believe that God exists for his own glory. God created everything on this universe for his own glory. Logic is not the reason God exists.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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