The Instigator
DeepInThought
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
GoOrDin
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

is Islam is a good religion?

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,147 times Debate No: 61711
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

DeepInThought

Pro

Many people that I have talked to during the recent Israeli-Gaza incident and the anniversary of 9/11 have talked about how they see the Muslim religion as an evil religion that should be completely eradicated. Non of the people who said this actually had any good arguments to their claims but It made me think, what about those who actually know something about the subject, and who actually did some research before they made up their mind that the Muslim ways of practicing their religion is in fact evil.
This is an open Debate with 3 rounds, 48 hour respond time. Thank you to who ever accepts.
GoOrDin

Con

DeepinThough,
I accept your challenge.

As a Christian, "Only God is Good.", and so I came into this debate not with the desire to speak ill of Islam, but to speak clearly of the matter.

I have not finished reading the Quran yet, but I have a clear understanding of the religion, it's principles and it's benefits.

As a Christian I wish for you to make your case prior to my attacks, but as to me Islam is the equivalent to Christianity,
who is to turn their cheek for the other to strike it!! so I say,

Islam is not a good religion, because:
- it does not bring unity between the people of the world.
- it does not clarify a higher way of being.
- it does not present any new information that did not exist prior to Muhammad.
- in the modern era, it focus's on unnecessary points and principals.
- Muhammad's Islamic message which has been given to him to give to the people of the world has been divided into sects, the same way all religions have before it, and now Islam is the same as any other religion, it survives int eh heart of the individual, not in a "establishment" associated to a doctrine.
- The islamic people who constitute the faith do not present a worthy alternative to living that they can easily convert atheists or christians.

I have other points, but the seem to be getting ruder.

I as a Christian, do not insult the Islamic faith, but seek to humble all humanity who deny God his truest of messages.
Debate Round No. 1
DeepInThought

Pro

I would like to thank GoOrDin for accepting this debate.

I would like to begin with your argument list.

1: it does not bring unity between the people of the world.

I would like to argue that religion in general doesn"t bring unity
between people of the world. Take the christens for instance (do to
the fact that you are christen) there is a huge list on how the
followers of Christianity would commit genocide or went to war because
people wouldn"t just drop centuries of traditions and beliefs and
convert to or follow their religious beliefs to the letter.

The Spanish inquisition,(the genocide of the Aztecs) the Saratoga
witch trials, (they were hunting down those who wished to practice
witch craft and mainly just ended up accidently killing other
Christens) The 100 year war between the French and English over whose
version of the bible was correct, The Crusades (need I say more?)

2: it does not clarify a higher way of being.

I don"t quite understand what you mean by this. I think you are saying
it doesn"t clarify a way to be happy and religious. If that"s the case
then consider this, If the people who follow Islam, really weren"t
happy with the way they live, then they probably would have taken the
same path as the Christians and split their religion into a hundred different ways to worship. (examples are, Baptist, Lutheran, and Catholic) But instead they have stuck with one way of worshiping, and have not strayed from their path that much.
3: it does not present any new information that did not exist prior to Muhammad.
I don"t really see how this makes Islam a bad religion. What I mean is that just because a religion has information and it doesn"t change to much, doesn"t make it bad, it means that it sticks to its story.
4: in the modern era, it focuses on unnecessary points and principals.
A religion has in the modern era, it focuses on unnecessary points and principals is pretty common for all religions, including your Christianity, for example, for many Christians it is made a point to go to church on Sunday, or the putting money in the offering, in which in many cases go into repairs into the building, The initial building, maintains, and the paying of bills that go into those buildings are expensive so a lot of the money that goes into the offering is going into the building. It is a waste of time and money just to go to church, if you wish to worship God, it would be a better point and practice to stay home, or go and have your gatherings in a public area.
5: Muhammad's Islamic message which has been given to him to give to the people of the world has been divided into sects, the same way all religions have before it, and now Islam is the same as any other religion, it survives into eh heart of the individual, not in a "establishment" associated to a doctrine.
I don"t understand how a religion surviving into the heart of the individual is a bad thing. Please tell me what you actually mean wit this one.
6: The Islamic people who constitute the faith do not present a worthy alternative to living that they can easily convert atheists or Christians.

I believe that you are saying that there isn"t a way to easily convert other belief systems to their own. (I"m saying I believe, because some of your other arguments didn"t quite make sense to me) But even so, does it really matter if it is easy to convert to? How does that make it a bad religion? Please answer me this.
So far I have countered all of cons arguments, that I understood what he was trying to say, and asked him to verify what he meant with the ones that I didn"t.
"The people who follow Islam are required by their religion to give back to their community, most of the time directly. www.blessedislam.com/news/anniston-islam-center-give-back-community
"Some of those "useless principals and points" from the Quran that I"m sure you as a reader of the Quran will recognize.
1. Truthfulness:
"O you who believe! keep your duty to Allah and speak straight, true words." (Holy Quran 33:70)
"O you who believe, keep your duty to Allah, and be with the truthful people." (9:119)
"Be maintainers of justice and bearers of true witness for Allah, even if it (the truth) goes against your own selves or parents or relatives or someone who is rich or poor." (4:135)
________________________________________
2. Sincerity:
"Serve Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience." (39:2)
"It is most hateful in the sight of Allah that you say things which you do not do." (61:3)
"Woe to those who pray but are unmindful of their prayers, who do good to be seen." (107:4-6)
________________________________________
3. Unselfishness:
"You cannot attain to righteousness unless you spend (in charity) out of those things which you love." (3:91)
"They (the true believers) give food, out of love for Allah, to the poor, the orphan and the slave, saying: We feed you only for Allah's pleasure - we desire from you neither reward nor thanks." (76:8-9)
"Do no favour seeking gain." (74:6)
________________________________________
4. Humility:
"The servants of the Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility." (25:63)
"Do not turn your face away from people in contempt, nor go about in the land exultingly." (31:18)
"Do not ascribe purity to yourselves. Allah knows best who is righteous." (53:32)
________________________________________
5. Patience:
"Allah loves those who are patient." (3:145)
"Give good news to the patient, who, when a misfortune befalls them, say: We are Allah's and to Him do we return." (2:155-156)
________________________________________
6. Forgiveness:
"Pardon (people) and overlook (their faults). Don't you love that Allah should forgive you." (24:22)
"(The dutiful are) . . . those who restrain their anger and pardon people. Allah loves those who do good to others." (3:134)
"Whenever they (true believers) are angry they forgive." (42:37)
"The recompense of evil is punishment like it. But whoever forgives (an evil committed against himself) and amends (matters), his reward is with Allah. . . . Whoever is patient and forgives, that is a matter of great resolution." (42:40, 43)
When the Holy Prophet Muhammad defeated his enemies in Makka and returned to that city as its conqueror, he forgave them in the following words:
"No reproof be against you this day; Allah may forgive you, and He is the most Merciful of those who show mercy." (12:92)
________________________________________
7. Purity and cleanliness:
"He indeed is successful who purifies himself (in mind and body), and remembers the name of his Lord, then prays." (87:14-15)
"Purify your garments and shun uncleanness." (74:4-5)
________________________________________
8. Honesty:
"Don't go near the property of an orphan, except in a goodly way, till he attains maturity. And fulfil the promise (you make) . . .. Give full measure when you measure out, and weigh with a true balance." (17:34-35)
"Do not swallow up your property among yourselves by false means, nor offer it as a bribe to the officials so that you may swallow up other people's property unlawfully while you know." (2:188)
________________________________________
9. Goodness and kindness to others:
"Allah commands you to uphold justice and to do good to others and to give to the relatives." (16:90)
Three degrees of doing good are mentioned here: "justice," which means returning any good that someone has done you with equal good; "do good to others," which means taking the initiative in doing good to others; and "give to the relatives," which means doing good to people instinctively and naturally just as one does good to one's close relatives.
"Do good to others, surely Allah loves those who do good to others." (2:195)
________________________________________
10. Consideration and respect for others:
"O you who believe! do not enter houses other than your own until you have asked permission and greeted the inmates . . . and if it is said to you, 'Go back', then go back." (24:27-28)
"O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion (against others), for surely suspicion in some cases is sin; and do not spy (into other people's affairs), nor let some of you backbite others." (49:12)
"When you are greeted with a greeting, greet with one better than it, or return it (in the same terms at least)." (4:86)
________________________________________

www.muslim.org/islam/int-is7.htm
GoOrDin

Con

Alright, YOU, who are DeepinThought

I will re-summarize the Cons, as you did not interpret them accurately evidently, nor counter them at all.

Islam is not a good religion, because:
( * Note here: my debate is NOT Islam is a bad religion. I am pro Islam, simply not in favor of it's practice. If Islam were a religion of true and devotional services to God, where would I look to find any? * )

- it does not bring unity between the people of the world.
( * saying Christianity does not bring unity does not stand as an argument to defend your own religion. Saying we are equally failures would make Islam a very poor religion. A Good religion would not create divisions.) (Note here: Christ did not make Christianity a religion. nor did he create a division in the church, yet he made The God of Abraham widely renowned and loved to the nations. )

- it does not clarify a higher way of being.
( although it says what not to do, it does not provide alternatives. seemingly, and agreeably A FLAWLESS (GOOD){without negative qualities] religion could provide a clearer message of how to be PRODUCTIVE.)

- it does not present any new information that did not exist prior to Muhammad.
( when a religion arrives 1000 years after the worlds most dominant religion, preaching the very same God is God, surely new information could be provided. As a prophet, Muhammad prophecies nothing will occur which had not already been said. Because Abraham had no scriptures, the book of the Quran is not a necessity to faith in God by any means, meaning Islam is not a religion befitting of the word Good. )

- in the modern era, it focus's on unnecessary points and principals.
( people still poop in water, don't plant gardens, build cities in unethical manners, take the chastity of youthful girls, refuse to migrate, and all in the meanwhile { the Quran says you must have faith in it, without any reason we need to. } )

- Muhammad's Islamic message which has been given to him to give to the people of the world has been divided into sects, the same way all religions have before it, and now Islam is the same as any other religion, it survives in the heart of the individual, not in a "establishment" associated to a doctrine.
{* Because Islam is factually a personal relationship with God, it cannot be defined by the parameters of religion. Islam is not factually a religion, not like calling yourself a Muslim is. Islam by definition has only the restriction of being pleasing to God, the manner in which that occurs is not determined by the Quran, which is what Muslims insist.*}

- The islamic people who constitute the faith do not present a worthy alternative to living that they can easily convert atheists or christians.

Muslims do not plant lavishing gardens, and build terraces of public spaces, do not herd animals which are not to be slaughtered for the privilege and joy of being surrounded by God given life. They do not burry their feces, or migrate when the seasons are poor to give ease tot he land and bless another with good companionship. They do not invest in the wellbeing of South Asia with great perspectives of it's quality value. The Islamic religion factually belittles women, and prominently has a disgusting record of disregarding God's love of chastity when it comes to youthful girls.
The people of Islam are spiritually blind, praying in the direction of Mecca. Which is idolatry. They honor Muhammad who is only a man, because he was handed a Scroll; but he was not chosen for his nobility or righteousness, only his fundamental capacity as a crusader.

The religion may not be Bad, as I can defend it as a sect in the Christian faith with ease and delight, but it is not a Good religion. as the amount of flaws are ruthless.

as for your support of Islamic laws and scriptures, with honesty, integrity, humility etc..
All these things came before the Quran*
It was Isreali law to be as such. To give such credit to a religion that surfaced 1000's of years later is absurd.

Truthfulness: You shall not lie. / even if you lie for the right reason, you will be prosecuted as a liar.
Sincerity: do not make oaths, do not lie, it is the same as truthfulness.
Unselfishness: do not covet your neighbors wife, or possessions. feed the poor. do not eat in secret.
Humility: although humility is not defined, "God hates the proud."
Patience: ~ that is nice. ~ I do not exempt Islam from my faith**
Forgiveness: is a thing of personal reward, and those who have not come to an understanding of that have demonstrated the righteousness of Gods commandments to Love him who is God of all people. Forgiveness is a logical law, that does not always apply and should likely not be taught as a scriptural doctrine.
Purity: - the Quran's reference to purity is obscured and offers no enlightenment to what that even means. "uncleanliness"
Kindness: the entire message of all scriptures since the beginning were that the humble and kind man is favorable by God, this is not knew. the entire Sanskrit scriptures of India favor goodness, chastity and humility.
Consideration and respect: these are not clear indications of any divinely acquired knowledge, indicating Islam is not a Good religion.

A Good religion is without conflict.

People Do not represent a religion** so please to not use hypocrisy as an argument again. Saying another religion is equally as flawed as yours is not a supporting statement in that Islam is good.
Debate Round No. 2
DeepInThought

Pro

Isreali, is spelt as Israeli, just to let you know you misspelled it,
and just remember that spelling and grammar is a voting point, also I
would like to recommend that you slow down with your typing. You seem
to be having a problem with putting spaces before you finish the word
you"re on. (It tripped me up a few times over the course of this debate)

Now for my final rebuttal.

You say directly that Islam isn"t a bad religion "Note here: my debate
is NOT Islam is a bad religion. I am pro Islam"-Con.

You didn"t seem to read my first round when I was making out the
challenge. "It made me think, what about those who actually know
something about the subject, and who actually did some research before
they made up their mind that the Muslim ways of practicing their
religion is in fact evil."-Me. The entire point of this debate was for
someone to argue that Islam is an evil religion, while I argue that it
is not. If you are going to except a debate challenge, you should read
what the point of the debate is, not just go out and take on a debate,
then try to change the point of the argument. So basically with that
sentence alone, you admitted that my argument is correct, But I also
would like to look at some of the other arguments that you had, that
just show that POPOO5560"s claim that you seem to be quite ignorant
about Islam, (I mean no disrespect by that, I just am saying that you
need to actually look at what you are saying)

My response to your first argument was not me trying to say that
Christianity is bad; in fact I was hoping that you being a Christian
would see your own religion as a good thing, and not as a failure.) I
myself like the Christian religion and for the most part it"s good. So
there for if Islam and Christianity are both equal even with their
faults, it would be good.

All religions that follow God, agree that he gave us free will, If he
gave specific directions on what to do all the time, then we wouldn"t
need to make decisions for ourselves, by telling us to not do this,
then that means that we can make our own choices on how to do things,
as long as we don"t break his rules. But it did bring in Sharia law to
be taught (Did your parents tell you how to do everything, or did they
teach you some independence?)

The Quran did add things like how to live in the good graces of God,
and they are in many cases the middle split between the Jewish belief
and the Christian belief, they believe that neither the Christians nor
the Jewish are wrong, but that they just don"t have the complete
story, and act the wrong way because of it.

You say that in the modern era that they focus on useless points and
principals, but you must relies that for them, all of these things had
helped them survive before now, and as the old saying goes, if it
isn"t broke, don"t fix it. (also I don"t know why you think they don"t
plant lushes gardens, because they do, I would like the voters to go onto
Google images, and type in Muslim gardens, they got some very nice
visual evidence to support my claim. And if Con is wrong about this,
imagine what ells he/she is wrong about)

You said that Islam isn"t even a religion because it is between God
and it"s believers, here is a definition for religion.

Noun: religion

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,
especially a personal God or gods.

A particular system of faith and worship.
"Google definitions
Being Muslim is the person who follows the religion Islam, Islam is
the religion itself.

If you think that the way Muslims worship God isn"t a particular
system of faith and worship, then I don"t know what is.

You say that because a religion has the same problems as all of the
other religions (if you consider some diversity is a bad thing) then you say all religions are bad religions, I personally believe that most religions are good religions that if worshiped the right way that most people of most religions do, (non extremist) then a religion can be the thing that can prevent violence and discrimination. It is only a select few who take the teachings of their God(s) and turn them into excuses to spread hate and discontent.
"The religion may not be Bad, as I can defend it as a sect in the Christian faith with ease and delight" "Con. You yet again said that the religion of Islam is not bad, again admitting that your side of the argument is mistaken. I can agree with you on that part that Islam isn"t bad, but Islam is not part of Christianity. You seem to be mistaken about some of the differences between Islam and Christianity, so let me provide it what my source: Accept, acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ is true God AND true man.-to get into heaven by aristean.org/post021.
The Islamic believe that Jesus was a profit and would never accept, nor acknowledge that he was true God.
I would like again to point out that just because the Islamic carried on a lot of their ways off of some earlier religions, does not mean that they are bad, and it doesn"t matter who started acting with the morals first, what matters is that they follow a good code of morality, (most of them at least) and I"ll give them credit for that.
To your last argument, (I"ve been countering them in order of your own) People do represent their religion, whether they represent it by following it in a positive way, and showing the upmost morality, or by slandering it by using it as an excuse to spread hate and violence, is up to them (most choose the first)
And now it is up to you who are GoOrDin to look into yourself and really think, do I wish to argue the actual debate at hand. It is up to you and the voters now, thank you for this wonderful debate.
GoOrDin

Con

DeepinThought, when you posted your Acceptance round, you did not say specifically that you wanted to talk to someone that said, "Islam was evil." You said, that you want to talk to someone who knew something about the subject. The Debate is, "Is Islam a Good religion?" ~ It is not.
When I bake a cake, and asked everyone at the party, "is it Good?", the response for those who do not enjoy it is not, "It is evil!", nor is it, "It is bad." They can respond, "it is Okay." or also "It isn't that good."

the reason I review this point, is that You said you were looking for someone who was not Ignorant of Islam.
deepinthought - "So basically with that sentence alone, you admitted that my argument is correct," I never said Islam is good, because as a Christian I believe, "Only God is Good."

Hoping that I see my religion as Good does not constitute a argument point, Because I do not: The religion does not lead to enlightenment; God himself leads to enlightenment.

Decisions and free-will: If I hired you as a landscaper: I said, I want a garden. I did not tell you where, or how, or what I wanted in it. I only said, I want a garden. Till the land, keep it, subdue it, and make it prosperous. You need to make that Garden before I come back, or you don't get payed and you get no reward. Make the decision and get it done - make all the decisions. The Bible gives us one very specific direction other religions do not, "Pray in secret.", "Do not pray so others see you." In this way no one can judge the Image of God because of your behaviors, and yet they still see your works so that they are not mislead by your actions.

You say the Holy Quran helped man survive. China survived without the Quran. Russia survived without the Quran. America South and North survived without it. One can not determine the Quran helped people survive. People survive.

But when I mentioned Muslims do not plant gardens. I was not referring to public gardens where someone is payed to plant and take care of it. I mean Gardens are not a requirement to their faith. Mulsims, don't plant Gardens. Go on google images right now, and look up "muslim gardens.", you do not see fruit or vegetables, you see vanity trapped within walls a man is proud to say is his, though HE does NONE of the work himself. Muslims do not plant gardens.

deepinthought - "You said that Islam isn"t even a religion because it is between God and it"s believers, here is a definition for religion.
Noun: religion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,
especially a personal God or gods."

A religion can be both something that involves God and or something that does not (False gods)? Your definition of religion is wrong. A religion is a doctrine, which indicates tot he world that which is pleasing to God and provides information about him. My belief and manner of worship is not definition, "religion", that would be "Prayer." would it not?

Muslims are not enlightened when they read the Quran. Muslims pray in the direction of Mecca, which is idolatry. Muhammad was told, "Pray in the direction that is pleasing to you." He said this because Isreal was no longer filled with faithful people, 1000 years after the Jews continued to deny Christ. So he was told, look to Mecca, because in this direction at the time was a people who were pleasing to God, and those who are pleasing to God are pleasing to his followers. Yet they idolaterate the city over this. Does the Quran give Wisdom to those who read it? Or is the person given wisdom from God apart from the Quran?

Islam by definition is true faith. That is the definition of Islam. In the same way that Yoga, by definition is true devotion to God. But to call oneself a Muslim, you must say, "The Quran is of utmost holiness, and Muhammad was given a message of the most important and revealing things, so much so that you need not listen to other holy scriptures!"

Christianity however does not require a man to accept Jesus was God & man to get into the kingdom of Heaven. If I read your post correctly. They are required to accept that God's very wisdom was prosecuted and denied and that he was not pleased with sin. THis is what a Christian must accept. God is not happy about sins, and you must live with That knowledge in order to accept forgiveness.

Now, because you wanted me to say Islam was bad, I will. Although that is not my debate.
And do not call me a hypocrite, because I do not say Christianity is a Good 'religion', and simply because I am not perfect, does not means that which I say is not true!

God loves chastity, yet Muslims marry children.
God loved Israel, yet Muslims came with war not with gifts and alms.

Isaiah, a prophet of Israel said, "Woe to those who build there house beside another mans house, and build their fields beside another mans field. +" Yet in Islam they do not listen to this great prophet who was among God's most prominent men of faith! he goes on to say, " + so that there is no room left in the land for the travelers to live amongst you. And you are made to live alone in the land. and that you grow less than an eafa of wheat on your property," ~ remembering your children and wife are your own flesh. Living with your family is still considered to be alone in your household.
Muslims disregard this Prophet!! For it was Joseph the Son of Isreal who was the servant of the Pharoah of Eqypt and lived in the city you died at the youngest age revealed int eh Biblical scriptures! and so it is clear that what he says is simple and true. Yet do Muslims adhere to this wisdom?

Jesus said, "listen to your prophets." yet Muslims do not listen to the prophets!

Islam is not Good.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
GoOrDin
the debate is over. we are having a discussion.
Posted by DeepInThought 3 years ago
DeepInThought
to GoOrDin if you wish to post an argument, please do so in your round, and not trying to use the comment section to farther your cause. this section is for people not part of the debate.
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
GoOrDin
@deepinthought,
"The difference between Muslims and Christians is their ultimate goal. " what difference is there in Goal?
rejoice in God, please God, trust in God, share the word of God.
what other goals do Muslims have, which like all these Christians do not?
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
GoOrDin
@Deepinthought
I hope that was not too long, insulting, or hard to read.
I reviewed it and wished it was longer, but I find it was sufficient and accurate.

you should invite me to a debate after this, Islam is Bad, and put me on the con side. I can debate Islam is not bad XD

But for what it is, I will win. Islam is not Good.
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
GoOrDin
@Popoo5560
what does 9/11 and the Gaza war have to do with anything? - that is not specifically relative to the Islamic religion at all.
I'm not ignorant about Islam** that is an attack on my person without any grounds to support your statement. Watch yourself.

Now, I am not afraid of rapid converts. Because that would in no way have any negative effects.
"...but as to me Islam is the equivalent to Christianity" That was me quoting me. What would I have to fear?*

You are clearly not even suited to take care of your own shitt. Probably the reason you crap in water.
Posted by POPOO5560 3 years ago
POPOO5560
9/11 and gaza war???? wtf what politicds has to do with Islam -_- and the christain guy absolutely ignorant about Islam and comes with prejudices as many other christains do the same cr-p towards Islam because they afraid of the rapid reverts to Islam from Christainity you are losing people !
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ajabi 3 years ago
Ajabi
DeepInThoughtGoOrDinTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: I have too much bias to vote on this topic. For me Pro won this debate, however being a Muslim myself, I cannot help but think that my mind would forcefully make me think Pro won. I am therefore not voting. Happy to clarify this RFD.