The Instigator
cheyennebodie
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Emilirose
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

is abortion comparable to the holocaust?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Emilirose
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/13/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,450 times Debate No: 61643
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (33)
Votes (2)

 

cheyennebodie

Pro

I say it is comparable to the holocaust. What say you.do you believe that statement to be true.And if not, your reasons for your stand.Acceptance in the first round.reasons in the rest of them.

6,000,000 Jews in the holocaust. 60,000,000 babies in abortion mills.
Emilirose

Con

Accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
cheyennebodie

Pro

The Jews were blamed for the problems in Germany. The unborn are blamed for the problems we have in America. Overpopulation. Not enough resources to take care of them.Abortion is simply liberal population control.

It was legal to kill Jews in Germany. It is legal to kill Babies in the womb in America.

The holocaust was a result of the death culture in Germany. Abortion is the result of the liberal death culture in America.

The Jews did not have a say whether they lived or died. The babies do not have a say whether they live or die.

The Jews were stripped of their dignity and humanity and herded into ovens. The babies are also stripped of their humanity and dignity by having their arms and legs torn from their bodies. Or having their bodies embedded in salt.
Emilirose

Con

Holocaust Facts

The Holocaust was a genocide in which around 11 million people were killed. An estimated 6 million of those were Jews, who were systematically forced into Nazi death camps on the basis of their race. During this period they were starved, beaten, shot, burned, gassed, and subjected to the most heinous treatment. The most common end for Jews was the gas chambers and the ovens. Entire families were killed, and approximately two-thirds of all Jews across Europe died.

5 million ethnic Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's witnesses, and Catholic priests were also sent to camps and killed, largely by starvation.

All this confirms that abortion (while it may not be good) is not comparable to the genocide and human tragedy that was the Holocaust.

(1.) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

(2.)http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
Debate Round No. 2
cheyennebodie

Pro

So far the only differences you presented are the numbers. 11,000,000 vesus 60,000000.

And you say it was not just Jews. Same here. Black, white, Jews, latino's catholic, protestant,and so on. Another difference I see that you failed to mention. Not all those in death camps died. In abortions, all the babies die.

I just think that this thing called abortion is the most unholy sacrament of the liberals. Sacrificing America's future on the altar of liberalism.And I would have no doubt that if abortion were to ever be found illegal, liberals would go just absolutely apoplectic.Kicking and screaming that it would be illegal to kill babies in the womb.Their thirst for blood can only be satisfied with dead babies.
Emilirose

Con

"So far the only differences you presented are the numbers".

Abortion has been practiced through a long period of time. It was formally legalized in the U.S in 1973.
The Holocaust took place within 9 years, that alone easily explains the difference in numbers.

One (major) difference that I presented was that the Holocaust was based on race. Abortions usually relate to unplanned pregnancy, not the systematic genocide of one (or more) ethnicity.

Another big difference is that victims of the Holocaust were killed by starvation, shooting, gas chambers and ovens. Abortions are a medical procedure, and this is not how they're completed.

The most credible of all arguments is the fact that people in the Holocaust were living people, with active consciences and established lives. The same cannot be said for unborn fetuses under 28 weeks.

Your views on liberalism are irrelevant to whether abortion is comparable to the Holocaust or not.
Debate Round No. 3
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Garsot 2 years ago
Garsot
And I have already pointed out, with an encyclopedia source to back it up, that Israel as a State is not that same as Israel as a body of people which had been in existence for thousands of years.

And again, I did not argue against the gas chambers, just when some of them were actually present in certain camps. I love when people argue points that have are not there, like they only read what they want to read sort of thin.
Posted by MykSkodar 2 years ago
MykSkodar
The point is there's nothing fuzzy about it. Gas chambers are well accounted for by both the books I've read, the survivors I heard in person and I also recall a recent BBC interview. You must be fond of one of those eccentric historians like David Irving.

Your argument on Israel is both a fallacy and anachronistic (it has already been pointed out to you that Israel did not exist and that there were very few jews living in Palestine before post-war mass migration). It's an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence, not false equivalences. You need to apply Ockam's razor a little more systematically when you think about such grave matters.
Posted by Garsot 2 years ago
Garsot
I do not recall arguing about there being concentration camps. I am arguing the point that a lot of people, government, survivors, those that worked at the camps, military personnel, that have been shown on record to state that a lot of the gas chambers arrived after the liberation of some of the camps.

And why is it so hard to believe that Israel was pulling the strings? You can believe that horrible things like this happen but not believe that there could be other forces behind it? History books are full of cases were people did horrible things to their own kin, including spiritual leaders and hierarchical rulers. So how is it so hard to believe that it happened in this case?
Posted by MykSkodar 2 years ago
MykSkodar
I don't know what you're smoking Garsot. There's actual footage of people behind wired fences, skinnier than you will ever see a human being (save perhaps starving Africans) and there are many accounts of the horrors as lived by Jews and others. It should be on every national curriculum to read an autobiography such as If "This is a Man" by Primo Levi (I have read 3 as part of the French national curriculum). I was lucky to meet two camp survivors, an opportunity that future generations will not have. There's very little, if anything, fuzzy about it.

Israel ordered the extermination? Conspiracy theories much? What the actual hell?!
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
And deniing it only for personal political or religious purposes.I am so glad that Israel did not hold on to hate when they were established as a nation.One thing they did do, was to be determined that no one will ever herd them into gas chambers. I am glad they took up the war covenant of David.
Posted by Emilirose 2 years ago
Emilirose
Yes, I can. Anyone who denies the Holocaust is denying human history.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
I hope you can see the difference between what I said and the holocaust deniers.
Posted by Emilirose 2 years ago
Emilirose
Garsot, again this was three years after WW2 finished! Before the 1948 establishment of Israel, Palestine was not a country or a sovereignty. So your suggestion "that Israel ordered the extermination" is absurd beyond belief. How can a country that did not exist do that? The Jews that got killed in the Holocaust are the relatives of those living in Israel now. Aside from the few Sephardi Jews (in Israel) and small number of Ashkenazi, the majority were in Europe. Hence why six million got killed. You seriously need to study your history.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
garot. Also losing in the end.I will try to stop mothers from killing there babies. Even if it takes law to do it. Sex is not criminal. After all,it is your mothers body. Not mine. I have no say in what happens to her. So I should mind my own business.According to you.

Don't get me wrong. I did bust into a place and stop a rapist, and would do it again if the need arose.And I will do everthing I can to stop abortions. I think that the only way to do that is changing hearts. And that is what I am about. Changing a mothers heart and turn it from death to life. She and the baby will be better off for it.The only way to change a heart is to change the way they think, their perception of life and death.
Posted by Garsot 2 years ago
Garsot
"The Jews accepted the plan; on 14 May 1948, the last day of the mandate, they proclaimed the formation of the State of Israel."

Becoming a state is not the same as the formation of a nation. Israel as a nation of people had been in formation for a long time.

http://www.encyclopedia.com...

Cheyennebodie, minding your own business about what do to with one's own body and beliefs being compared to letting someone get raped...that sort of response does not come from a reasonable person and only merits identifying you as unreasonable and illogical. To try and debate with you would be a waste of energy.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Chuz-Life 2 years ago
Chuz-Life
cheyennebodieEmiliroseTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: All else being equal - objectively - I find the comparison easier to see by pro's (crude and simple) arguments than by Con's denials. I find Con's counter argument that 'aborted children don't feel pain' to be repulsive and almost Hitleresque. Since when is the ability to feel pain - a requirement for personhood?
Vote Placed by Mister_Man 2 years ago
Mister_Man
cheyennebodieEmiliroseTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con easily disputed all of Pro's claims, and backed it up with sources.