The Instigator
sabarashy
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
notyourbusiness
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points

is god evil

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
notyourbusiness
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 485 times Debate No: 63115
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

sabarashy

Con

Earlier today I was talking to friend about religion I being an agnostic Christian and him being an atheist we had conflicts and he said even if god is real I would not worship him for he is evil obviously I asked him why he said god lets horrible things happen to the innocent and I said well that is him giving us free will and with that free will comes the price of evil wouldn't it be evil to have no free will?
notyourbusiness

Pro

First I must thank con for instigating this debate. I am assuming that the god referred to is the Christian God. I must also declare that I am accepting this challenge purely to do a test of debating skill, and I mean no offence to any religion or religious believer.

To start this round of the debate, I will begin by defining the word "evil". "Evil" describes something that is profoundly immoral and malevolent. "Immoral" refers to things that do not conforming to accepted standards of morality, such as killing or theft. "Malevolent" refers to having or showing a wish to do evil to others.

So here are my points:

1. God kills people
Killing is generally considered as an immoral and unacceptable act, yet God does plenty of killing.

In Exodus Chapter 11, The Plague of the Firstborn, it is clearly stated that "At midnight the LORD struck down (killed) all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh, who sat not he throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well."

In Genesis Chapter 6, The Flood, it is also made clear that God flooded the world. Genesis 6:17 says "I (God) am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish."

In Genesis 19:4-5, God burnt the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah down to the ground.

In Genesis 38:9-10, God killed Onan for refusing to impregnate his dead brother's widow.

There are many more examples, such as God killing Herod, Nabal, Korah and his followers, etcetera, but i suppose these examples are more than sufficient to prove that God kills.

2. God curses people
While cursing is generally simply considered as rude and not evil behaviour, after God curses people he actually follows through the acts.

An great example would be Ezekiel Chapter 23, where God states that "I will turn you over tot hem for punishment...they will cut off your noses and ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewellery."

True to his word, Israel was later conquered but he Assyrians and Judah was defeated by the Babylonians. Many Israelites becomes slaves or were killed during the wars, and the nations were robbed of their fine treasures, as was recorded in the book of Daniel. In Daniel chapter 3, Daniel's friends Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were actually thrown into a fiery furnace for refusing to bow before the idol of the Babylonian king. True, they survived, but all of these incidents echo God's words in Ezekiel Chapter 23.

3. Totally inhumane laws
The law of Apostasy, as stated in Deuteronomy 13;12-15, says that "If you hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your God is giving you to dwell there, that certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which you have not known, then you shall inquire and make search and ask idiligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword.", which means that if citizens of a certain city believe in another god, all the citizens and animals of the city will have to be killed. This is mass murder.

Converting people to another religion, or being a drunkard, results in death by stoning, a particularly horrifying, terrible and inhumane way of carrying out the death penalty. This is stated in Deuteronomy 13:1-11, Deuteronomy 18:20 and Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

Deuteronomy 20:12-14 states "If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies." This means that if a city fights the Israelites, all the men in the city will be killed and the remaining plundered. Here, women and children re treated as objects. This is blatant allowing of slavery!

I look forward to con's arguments and rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 1
sabarashy

Con

First the bible is horrific book written by "man" and there is the key the bible can be edited to suit any group we have seen this with cathlics and king james bible and the niv bible they changed many meanings of the bible from the orignal bible also they took out many books of bible so the bible is not a very reliable source so lets focus on what we know today back to 1 a. d. Becuase were pretty certain about what happend from there to now

My first reason god is not evil he gave us life most likely not in the sense of whats told in genesis but still why would he make us if he hayed us

Second is he gave us the abilty to go to heavon why would he do this if he is

Third if your Talking about genesis than it says god made us in his image and I would not call humans evil

If god is evil why does good always win in the long run
notyourbusiness

Pro

I thank Con for his arguments, and I will respond accordingly. I would like to stress again that I mean no offence to any religion or religious believer, but am simply accepting this challenge purely as a test of debating skill. Thus, I urge voters and viewers to judge on skill and technique, rather than their own religious views.

1. " the bible is horrific book written by 'man' "
Actually, Christians believe that God used his human authors to write the Bible for him, which technically means that God was the writer while man was the printer, thus God was actually the one who contributed the content of the Bible.

Con seems to insinuate that the Bible does not accurately record or portray God, which seems to contradict the views of the majority of Christians or Catholics, as these religions use the Bible as a reference.

2. "Second is he gave us the abilty to go to heavon why would he do this if he is evil"
I wonder where Con gets his/her information saying that God gave us the ability to go to heaven. If he/she gets it from the Bible, then Con's first point (see above) is invalid.

According to the Bible, while God did give humans his only son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (isn't that a terribly evil thing to do to your son?), he was also the one who created heaven and hell. Hell, in the Bible, is described to be "a fiery lake of burning sulphur" (Revelation 21:8), "fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:50), "eternal fire" (Jude 1:7). In short, it is a torture pit. A being who sentences other people to such misery and suffering is evil and wicked.

3. "Third if your Talking about genesis than it says god made us in his image and I would not call humans evil"
True, Genesis does talk about how humans are made in God's image. However, it is unclear as to what 'image" refers to. While some believe that it refers to God's "holiness" and "purity", I believe otherwise. The examples given in the first round have more than proved God's evilness.

Also, it is undeniable that there is evil among us, and that some humans are evil. Humans in general are selfish-which is considered to be immoral in the Bible-so how would you explain this?

4. "If god is evil why does good always win in the long run"
I am unsure as to how Con arrives to the conclusion that "good always wins in the long run". He/she has not given any examples or elaboration as to how the statement is true. Also, "the long run" is undefined. When is the "ending point" for the so-called long run? Is it 50 years after a crime? If so, I can give many examples of unsolved criminal cases that last well over a century. Is it until Judgement Day? If so, I argue that since God is evil, he will not be a fair judge and his decisions and ruling cannot be trusted.

I would also like to point out that Con has failed to respond to my points concerning God killing people and God cursing people. My arguments and examples in the first round prove that God is evil.

I look forward to seeing Con's arguments.

References:
http://www.biblica.com...
Debate Round No. 2
sabarashy

Con

Okay so want to make something clear I'm agnostic Christian no bible please focus on what we know what I mean by good always wins is evil doesn't last some examples being slavery Nazis soviets sergation sexism these are all gone or diminishing and if god controls everything maybe he is doing this now for hell would you rather some one as Stalin or Hitler in heavon or hell would that be evil to reward the wicked
notyourbusiness

Pro

I thank Con for his/her quick response. Again, this debate is merely a test of skill and means no offence to any religion or religious believer. Here I will respond to Con's arguments:

1. "Okay so want to make something clear I'm agnostic Christian no bible please "
Con only says that no Bible quoting is allowed in the last round. It was not mentioned in the rules, and since the topic is "is god evil", I will consider the statement invalid.

2. "focus on what we know what I mean by good always wins is evil doesn't last some examples being slavery Nazis soviets sergation sexism these are all gone or diminishing and if god controls everything maybe he is doing this now"
While it is indeed true that some of the evil of the world seems to be diminishing, the point is that evil still exists. God may have done good things, but those things don't make up for the evil he did, such as killing many people and dooming nations. This is not math. A good deed (+1) and a bad deed (-1) does not equal a neutral (0). If a murderer helped a lost girl find her way home, he is still a murderer.

3. "for hell would you rather some one as Stalin or Hitler in heavon or hell would that be evil to reward the wicked"
I am not certain as to what Con is trying to say here, so I will explain my previous point in detail. My point is that, only an evil person would sentence people to a torture pit (Hell). Only an evil being would intentionally create such a terrible place of suffering to torture people.

I see that Con still hasn't replied to my points concerning God killing people and God cursing people. God personally killed a lot of people, and even nearly wiped out the world with a flood at one point (remember Noah?). Only an evil being could cause such destruction intentionally. God also made very inhumane laws, such as laws which called for the slaughtering of cities and death by stoning, a very painful, horrific and inhumane form of the death penalty.

Here I urge all voters to vote fairly, judge based on skill and technique rather than religion or religious beliefs. I thank Con for starting this debate, and I hope we will have more debates later on.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
sabarashynotyourbusinessTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: con gives poor rebuttals to pro's strong evidence showing God's malicious intent
Vote Placed by Ash_RationalTheist 2 years ago
Ash_RationalTheist
sabarashynotyourbusinessTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro Outplayed it completely, Eventhough i'm a theist...who doesn't agree God is Evil still i'd like to be just
Vote Placed by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
sabarashynotyourbusinessTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made more convincing arguments than Con.