The Instigator
nafzee84
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KeytarHero
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points

is jesus is a god?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
KeytarHero
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/12/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,017 times Debate No: 22779
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

nafzee84

Con

is jesus is a god? or son of god? or holy gost ?
KeytarHero

Pro

I accept the challenge. I will be arguing that Jesus is God, Himself. I will be using the 66 books of the Bible to make my case.

As Con is the instigator, he bears the burden of proof. As such, I will wait until he makes his first argument to respond.
Debate Round No. 1
nafzee84

Con

if jesus is god why he didnt tell that he is god ?.. i knew he never told he said his father that means a father of all. father of adam,noah,abraham,isaac,ismael,jacob,solomon,david, moses and jesus. if jesus alone god because he had no father and only mother that means adam is a greater god than jesus because he had no father and mother. listen brother jesus never claim divinity its only the historian wrote it almighty god never has family he is alone do not associate anything equal to him.

miracles: abraham, moses, yousuf and many more prophets done miracles each one had differ from each. Almighty god knews everything that if jesus do miracles then everyone follows him and worship as god but my dear brother jesus (pbuh) himself said in the bible that i do nothing from my hand whatever i ask my father he gives me. if jesus is a god why didnt he travelled all places of world why he stayed only in jerusalem because he sent to only jews to fullfill his prophecy. and he himself from his mouth never said that he is god and worship. my dear brother jesus name in hebrew (yushwa) the messi means the messiah means the messenger from almighty god thats it he is not god and from his own mouth never claim that the desipers had written something from hebrew but after 40 yrs it has translated to latin and greek from (mark.luke,mathew,john and paul) people who never seen jesus even once they never see,never speak with him,never travelled with him they dont even know his face by hearing and copied the original text according to their own living they changed the whole mean from the original book. if bible is the word of god just ask them from the start how many version of bible has released. Is the word of god can have these many different version this all version the exact same may differ one to one.

reseruction: first of all he didnt die in the cross it was some one when roman came to trapp him almighty god has taken jesus from the place and replace him with roman soldier itself. if he resurected means after that where did he go he said clearly that after he goes another comforter(prophet mohammed (phup) willl come to guide you. it is in hebrew clearly mention.

crucification : almighty god cannot die for our sins each and every human in the world should anser for his own sins. just think if almighty god die for our sins then we all are free from sins so anyone can kill anyone and anyone can steal anything because almighty god had died for oulr sins. just think how a god can die for our sins. some people says god had died for those sins who were living at the time of he lives in the world. then think what a partial god is that he had forgiven only those who lived with him. see brother think wise dont ask the pastor or faith healer they dont tell u perfectly. u itself read quran and bible and see the difference.

conclusion : if we throw all the holy books of all religion in the ocean including quran. then quran will come back with the same version withinn two days because it has clearly memorized in scholars memory thats why islam is fastest growing religion in the world.
Islam means submitting to one god(allah means arabic translation of god) and muhammed is his last final messenger and servant. all prophets are muslims i hope u understood my brother

god creation : almighty god has sent many prophets to the earth in that jesus is one of the mighties prophet in the world. but he is not god he is just a servant of almighty god he came to fullfill his prophecy.if u dont beleive try buying quran in english and read and see what it has mention about jesus. and read the scientific proof has mention in the quran just can't imagine and it has reaveled to last prophet.
KeytarHero

Pro

It seems that Con is defending a Muslim concept of God. He has given a few arguments for why Jesus isn't God, but offers no evidence to support his claims.

Did Jesus claim to be God?

While Jesus didn't come right out and say "I am God," He did allude to it in some pretty powerful ways. First, He said "I and the Father am one." He didn't simply mean one in purpose, but one and the same. The Jews present picked up stones to kill Him for His blasphemy (John 10:30-33). Second, Jesus claimed to exist before even Abraham, another stoneable offense. (John 8:58-59). Thirdly, Jesus forgave sins and only God can do that. Those present accused Him of blasphemy for this, as well (Mark 2:1-7). Jesus clearly claimed to be God.

The miracles of Jesus.

I'm a little uncertain what Con is claiming here. But I'll tackle his objections. There were many prophets in the Bible who worked miracles. Jesus was no different. He was a prophet, but He was also God. However, the Bible teaches that God is a Trinity. So while the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same God, they are separate individuals within the Trinity. Jesus was fully human and fully God, and He was completing the mission that the Father sent Him to accomplish. Jesus didn't travel all over because that wasn't His ministry. His ministry was to fulfill many prophcies concerning His life (including those which couldn't be faked, such as being born of a virgin), then to eventually die on a cross in Jerusalem so that the world can be saved from their sins. It wasn't His purpose to travel the globe preaching the truth of God.

Jesus' name in Hebrew does not mean "messenger from God." Jesus' name in Hebrew (Joshua), as well as in Greek, means God is salvation. In Matthew 1, Mary was instructed to name Him Jesus because "He will save His people from their sins."

Con's assertion that the Bible is unreliable because it was written by people who never saw him or heard him speak is ridiculous. First, the same is true of the Qu'ran. It was written by Mohammad, who lived some 500 years after Christ lived on Earth. Secondly, while most of the Bible was written by people who never met Jesus (although 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, so this is irrelevant), the Gospels were written by two of Jesus' own disciples (Matthew and John), and the other two by close associates of Christ's own disciples (Mark and Luke).

The Resurrection of Christ.

I am actually debating this right now with another person on DDO. There is ample historical evidence for the Resurrection. Due to space restraints, and it not being my intention to overwhelm my opponent, I will say something briefly about each.

1. Jesus was actually dead. Con asserts that it wasn't actually Jesus on the cross, but this is ridiculous. Jesus was captured and beaten, and hung on the cross. Jesus' ministry was a public ministry. Just about everyone would have known if there was an imposter. The evidence of history, which is undisputed by the vast majority of historical and New Testament scholars, believers and skeptics, is that Jesus died on that cross.

2. The empty tomb. This is also undisputed, although many alternative theories have been produced to try and explain the empty tomb. They are all found lacking in explanatory power.

3. Appearances. Post-resurrection Jesus appeared to many people. He appeared to the women at the tomb, to the aforementioned pair of men on the road to Emmaus, to the ten disciples (sans Thomas and Judas, who hanged himself after Jesus' crucifixion), to the eleven disciples (Thomas included), and even to 500 people all at once.

4. Testimonies. The disciples were cowards. Peter denied Jesus three times. They hid when he was captured. They were uneducated and had low social standing. Yet after Jesus rose, they were suddenly bold and empowered. They were willing to die for what they believed (and most of them did). This dramatic change in their character is only explained by the Resurrection.

5. Low status of women. If the disciples had wanted to make up the resurrection event, they wouldn't have used women (Mary, Mary Magdalen, Salome, and the other women with them) as the primary witnesses as the event due to the fact that women were not considered reliable witnesses. The best explanation is that they were actually the primary witnesses to this actual event.

6. Immediate proclamation. The Jews started proclaiming Jesus immediately, in the city in which He was said to have risen. They would not have done this if Jesus hadn't actually risen. If Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead, the body could have been produced and the new movement of believers would have been crushed right then and there.

The Crucifixion of Jesus.

It is true that everyone is accountable for their own sins. However, the reason Jesus died is to pay the penalty that we deserved. Because Jesus went to the cross for us, our sins are no longer deserving of death. If we ask Jesus to forgive us, He will be faithful and just to forgive us (1 John 1:9). Just because God came to earth and died for our sins does not mean we are all forgiven. We must all want to be forgiven and then seek forgiveness. If we try to be good, then the Law will be used against us because no one can keep it perfectly (Romans 2:12). Jesus didn't die for only those in the time He lived, but for all people at all times.

Conclusion.

Con makes a pretty bizarre apologetic for the Qu'ran. People memorize the Bible, too. If you threw all the copies of the Bible in the ocean, it could also be re-created by the memories of Christians. Additionally, we have more manuscript evidence for the Old and New Testaments of the Bible than for any other ancient work. There is no doubt that despite the fact it has gone through many translations and versions, that we still know with 99.99% certainty what the Bible originally said.

God Creation.

Con asserts many things about the Qu'ran, but doesn't back any of them up. The reality is that Jesus claimed to be God, and then He proved it by prophesying His own resurrection and then coming back to life, as He said He would.
Debate Round No. 2
nafzee84

Con

proof : why jesus told to those 5 hundred people after resucrection that touch me and he had food u mean almighty god is so cheap that he can have food. the reason jesus said is to prove that he is a man and what a injustice god he is that he crucified for other sins. that means u do every sins and just accept jesus as a god and go to heaven really in sounds illogicall listen brother u do ur sins and u need to repent it u alone need to be answerable no any other can crucifiy for ur sin.and jesus told that clearly in the bible.

Word of god: if bible is a word of god then why so many version for example: ancient rsv,kings james version,corintian bible like many and u say jesus is only begotten son. so u mean god had merged with mary and give birth to jesus because thats what it mean begotten means lower level of animal act(sex).

Proof of god: in bible gospel of john:chapter no 14 verse 6 : he says my father is greater than i, my father is greater than all, i do nothing, i cast out devils with the help of father. what do u mean for those sentence. how can god say like that if a god say from his own mouth then he his not god. if he say for the holy spirit then he should be confused with man kind. do u think almighty god is confused with human no my dear brother jesus never claim divinity its all church made like that
I believe that jesus had born to a virgin mary and he did wonders and miracle but he himself said more than 25 time that iam a "son of man" means "son of david". why god has to say like that if he is greater.

mother mary: who is this lady is she ia mother of god?/daughter of god?
mother of god: if she is mother of god then she should be greater than god but she died how goddess can die ok let me come to ur point if she is daughter of god then how she can act in both mother/daughter. so that means almighty god is locked up with mary with both sides. sounds illogical.

jesus words: he said i and father are one that means he is not father he says the path u live like jesus u can see the father and he said iam the truth and life that also means in his time we have to follow the path of jesus. in the time of abraham he is the truth and way of life then at the time of moses then he is the truth and way of life all the particular time prophets are the truth and way of life. so which one u say . jesus from his own mouth never said like that

conclusion: who is paul when did he wrote the bible do u know the original name for bible?
what is the mean for messiah? is a messenger /christ. mark, like,john,mathew they said clearly that jesus is the christ of god...... then after few more years paul he converted to jesus christ is the son of god..
read song of solomon 5th song. and tell me what it said
and whom jesus refers. its not holy gost its a man name in it. if u need to know that man name then read hebrew text

if god come down to earth and eat

It sound illegicall that almighty god came down to earth
KeytarHero

Pro

Proof: Jesus told the people gathered after the resurrection to touch him and give him food so that he could prove that he rose bodily and wasn't a ghost. It was to prove that the resurrection happened, just as Jesus said it would. There is nothing illogical about Jesus dying on the cross to take the place for our sins.

Consider this scenario: You have committed a crime. Say you have stolen $500 from someone. You are taken to court and the judge demands you pay $500 back to the plaintiff. Someone in the audience takes pity on you and pays the plaintiff the $500 that you owe and lets you off the hook. They have paid your fine.

But now consider that the judge is your own father. You have not stolen money, you have actually committed murder and the penalty is death. The judge can't let you off the hook becuase that would not be justice. So he sentences you to die. But because he loves you so much he offers to die in your place, taking the penalty that you deserve. The only catch? He asks you to turn your life around and live a better life. This is what God/Jesus have done for us. God is our judge because He can't tolerate isn, but God, loving us so much, became a man, Jesus, to die on the cross and take the penalty that we deserve. The only thing he asks in return is that we turn our lives around and forsake our lives of sin.

Word of God: The Scriptures are the Word of God. The original scrolls that were written was God's word. The many translations are not, they are merely the original versions that have been translated into many different languages. There are some bad versions that were written with an obvious bias, such as the version Jehovah's Witnesses use. But there are many good ones, such as the NKJV, the NASB, and the NIV. But there are some that are better than others. The main reason that there are so many versions are so that someone can read the Bible in their native tongue, and since language changes, sometimes there are updates (such as the New King James being revised from the King James, which used archaic language).

Additionally, God didn't merge with Mary. He allowed her to become impregnated, supposedly by creating a sperm that would merge with her egg in the natural way of procreation (but obviously without the natural means of requiring a male). This way Jesus could be perfect and not stained by the original sin of Adam. God did not have sex with Mary, and having sex is in no way implied when the Scriptures say that Jesus is the only "begotten" of God.

Proof of God: There are three distinct persons in the Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God but yet different. They all have a separate purpose. However, Jesus was not saying that the Father was actually "greater," since Jesus was also God. He was, in fact, showing that while he was God, he was also still a man. As the Scriptures also state, he was "...made for a little while lower than the angels..." (Hebrews 2:9). Also in Philippians 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men..."

Jesus did claim divinity. I mentioned that in the last round. If you're going to claim otherwise, you need to respond to those arguments I presented.

Mother Mary: Mary is not the mother of God. She is the mother of Jesus in his humanity. God has no mother. He is the creator of all, including Mary. He is greater than Mary. He is a necessary being, one who is not contingent on anyone for his survival. Mary was human, just like everyone else.

Jesus' Words: I have shown you what Jesus said. Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." They are the same being, the same God. You are reading into the Scriptures what just isn't there.

Conclusion: Paul didn't write the Bible, he only wrote about eleven books in the Bible. The Bible is a collection of sixty-six (or more, if you're Catholic) scrolls that were written as individual historical accounts, or works of poetry, etc. It wasn't collected into one volume called the Bible until sometime in the third or fourth century.

You have not really offered much evidence against the divinity of Jesus. I'm not sure what Paul or the fifth chapter of Song of Solomon have to do with the divinity of Jesus. At any rate, you did not make an argument with them so I can't really respond.

It seems clear that from Biblical exegesis, Jesus claimed to be God. Through His resurrection and other miracles, He also proved it. Thank you for the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
KeytarHero won this debate for many reasons.

CONDUCT/S & G:
Con showed poor conduct by adding newer arguments throughout the last round and did not make much sense to me. He also spelled poorly thus loosing the grammar vote.

ARGUMENTS
Here is where my real analysis begins. Pro wins this debate in a landslide. He showed that Jesus claimed to be "One with the father" and the Jewish authorities of his times took that as claiming divinity. Con never refuted that, nor any of this arguments.

Con's arguments basically strawmaned the Christian view of God and misrepresented the belief.
Posted by KeytarHero 4 years ago
KeytarHero
What, exactly, are you wanting to debate? I believe that Jesus is not a god, but God Himself. Would you like to debate that as the resolution?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Meatros 4 years ago
Meatros
nafzee84KeytarHeroTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments withstood criticism and were coherent. Half the time I couldn't even understand the train of logic Con was going for.
Vote Placed by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
nafzee84KeytarHeroTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Comments
Vote Placed by SuburbiaSurvivor 4 years ago
SuburbiaSurvivor
nafzee84KeytarHeroTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro countered Con's objections, and, Con barely made sense.