The Instigator
thesupporter
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Mothman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

is jesus still alive

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 575 times Debate No: 48881
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

thesupporter

Pro

round one acceptance
round two first argument
round three second argument
round four third argument
round five rebuttals and conclusion
Mothman

Con

I accept your challenge, good luck to you
Debate Round No. 1
thesupporter

Pro

Jesus is still alive in heaven and he is still alive on earth I refer back to the bible when Jesus got raised back to life he went to heaven the Holy Spirit another form of God is in us
Mothman

Con

Jesus is not alive but is forever dead.

I will use four main sources to support my view, The Bible, The Quran, Science, and History

I will also emphasize that the burden of proof is on pro to prove that Jesus is still alive, it is not on me to prove the contrary.

I will now present my reasons for why I believe Jesus is dead.

1. Every human has to die- Jesus was a mortal man, he was not God or the son of God, so has to die just like all humans die.

I will first prove that Jesus was not God.

Jesus never says I am God, worship me, and when Jesus is on the cross he says, "My God my God why hast thou forsaken me." (Matthew 27:46) He does not say, "Oh Me oh My why have I forsaken myself." This proves Jesus could not have been God, because he is praying to God. If Jesus was God, he would have no need to talk to himself.

Jesus also ate food, drank water, and used the bathroom just like any other human being. God is Holy he would never use the bathroom, and he would never come out of the vagina of a mortal human woman. Saying Jesus is God is blasphemy.

I will also prove that Jesus is not the Son of God.

God is holy as the bible says, (Leviticus 19:2) God does not have sex therefore, and doesn't have babies.

Jesus couldn't be the Son of God literally, because God would have to have sex in order to have a son, but God can't have sex because he is, A. Holy, and B. Immaterial.

a son has the chromosomes of both his mom and dad, if God is the Dad of Jesus, then how did He give Jesus immaterial chromosomes? This makes no sense. Therefore Jesus can't be the son of God, because it makes no sense and it is further blasphemy.

2. The Resurrection is a lie- Jesus did not rise from the dead,

The Bible says, that dead people are raised up as spirits, (1 Corinthians 15:44)

Jesus after his so called resurrection said, he wasn't a spirit, (Luke 24:39) this proves he was alive and not a dead man.

Jesus also did not die on the cross.

He was hung on the cross, but he did not die on there, he was alive the whole time.

Here is my proof.

1. It takes days to die on a cross, Jesus was hung only for a few hours

2. They did not break the bones of Jesus, (John 19:36)

3. When they pierced Jesus' side blood and water came out, proving his heart was beating and proving he was alive. (John 19:34)

That proves he was alive, and so does his prophecy of a miracle like Jonah, (Matthew 12:40)

Jonah was alive the whole time inside the belly of the whale, so it would make sense that Jesus was alive when he was buried in the earth.

Also Jesus ate food, (Luke 24:42,43) a dead man doesn't eat food, therefore Jesus was alive.

3. Jesus is buried in Kashmir- Jesus did not die on the cross, but survived crucifixion and migrated to India and Kashmir, and died in Kashmir, and his body is still there.

The Body of Jesus there is buried the way a Jew's would be, and the people of Kashmir are related to Jews, and there are footprints proving that the man buried was hung on a cross some time in his life.

All these reasons prove that Jesus is forever dead, I hope Pro can do better than I did to prove that Jesus is alive, because the Burden of Proof is on him as I said earlier.

http://www.alislam.org...

http://moshiach.com...

http://www.tombofjesus.com...

http://www.tombofjesus.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 2
thesupporter

Pro

Jesus is still alive because the bible says he rose back to life and he rose back into heaven

1. And Jesus called out with a loud voice, " Father into your hands I commit my spirit." And when he said this he breathed his last ( Luke 23:46) he was on the cross then and he breathed his last so he "died" on the cross
2. After The Lord Jesus had spoken to them he rose up to heaven and sat at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19) this tells us that he was human flesh but when he finished he went up to heaven and sat ant the right hand of his father God the father
Mothman

Con

"Jesus is still alive because the bible says he rose back to life and he rose back into heaven"

Pro is using the Bible as his only source, but I must ask him, why should we believe the bible and why should we take it seriously.

According to Bart Ehrman, The Bible has been changed.

The Bible is also full of contradictions.

Here are a few,

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)
7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)
8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)
9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)
10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)
11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)
12. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)
13. In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)
Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)
14. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)
Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)
15. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)
Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)
16. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)
Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)
17. How many were the children of Zattu?

Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)
Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)
18. How many were the children of Azgad?

One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)
Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)
19. How many were the children of Adin?

Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)
Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)
20. How many were the children of Hashum?

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)
Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)
21. How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)
One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)
22. Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

War or Peace?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

The Gospels were written years after Jesus died, and we don't have the originals of the New Testament we only have their copies that were written centuries later.

The Bible is not a reliable source, The Burden of proof is still on Con, and also to to prove that his Bible is a reliable source.

Pro needs to use the Bible, Quran, Science, Logic, and History to prove that Jesus is still alive,

so far pro has only used the Bible, and I have already prove that is not reliable.

The Bible itself contradicts the idea Jesus died and rose from the dead, but Pro did not address this.

Pro needs to answer is a resurrected body a spirit or physical? Why was Jesus not a spirit when the bible says, resurrected bodies are spirits (1 Corinthians 15:44)

And Pro needs to address how Jesus could be immortal, when no one else in History has been.

Pro lastly needs to address the tomb of Jesus found in Kashmir, which proves Jesus is forever dead, ameen

http://www.bartdehrman.com...

http://infidels.org...

http://www.answering-christianity.com...
Debate Round No. 3
thesupporter

Pro

1. as you can see con has had some very good said arguments but their is one flaw he does not understand that Jesus could be the son of God In Luke 1:34 she said " how can this happen since I am a virgin?" she knows that she is still a virgin and tells the Angel Gabriel that but Gabriel said in Luke 1:35 The angel said to Mary, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you. For this reason the baby will be holy and will be called the Son of God." this show that the angel of God says that God's power comes over her and because of that reason she will have a son and He will be named "Son of God". Also in his second argument he showed out many things that are different in the bible, but I say there are just different accounts of the same event. Like " 2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)" this is a prime example two people said this Samuel and Paul, Paul was much later that Samuel and Samuel most likely saw the event Paul most likely heard about it and you know that words can be changed over time like the game telephone one person might have told Paul one thing but it might not have been the truth
Mothman

Con

Again Pro uses the bible as his only source for his belief that Jesus is still alive,

as I mentioned before The Bible is not a reliable source.

It has been changed, as I pointed out earlier.

1. "as you can see con has had some very good said arguments but their is one flaw he does not understand that Jesus could be the son of God In Luke 1:34 she said " how can this happen since I am a virgin?" she knows that she is still a virgin and tells the Angel Gabriel that but Gabriel said in Luke 1:35 The angel said to Mary, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you. For this reason the baby will be holy and will be called the Son of God."

"this show that the angel of God says that God's power comes over her and because of that reason she will have a son and He will be named "Son of God"

This would be good if the Bible was true, but again, why should I believe in the Bible?

Pro has offered no proof that the Bible is the Word of God, and no proof on why I should believe in it, again the burden of proof is on pro to prove his bible and to prove that Jesus is still alive, using not just the changed bible, but also the Quran, Science, History, and Logic, so far he has used only the bible, but that is not a reliable source as I already pointed out.

The oldest Bible found says, that Jesus was human.

The Gospel of James (who was Jesus' brother) says that Jesus was human, yet the church suppresses it.

There are books older than the 4 gospels which says Jesus was human, and say's no where he was God or the Son of God.

There are many books which did not make it into the Bible, Constantine made it only that the 4 gospels make it into the Bible.

This shows the Bible is not reliable and has been changed

The books that I mentioned which were taken out of the Bible and describe early Christianity, describe Jesus as the servant of God not as the Son of God,

it also says nothing about the virgin birth, or Jesus' divinity.

Since he isn't mentioned as the son of God in the oldest Bible's it is safe to say he is human, and died like all other humans.

Also I presented logical reasons why Jesus could not be the Son of God.

I mentioned that God cannot have sex, so how could Jesus be the son of God, if God can't have kids?

Pro never addressed this.

"Also in his second argument he showed out many things that are different in the bible, but I say there are just different accounts of the same event. Like " 2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)" this is a prime example two people said this Samuel and Paul, Paul was much later that Samuel and Samuel most likely saw the event Paul most likely heard about it and you know that words can be changed over time like the game telephone one person might have told Paul one thing but it might not have been the truth"

See Pro admits the Bible has changed.

If the Bible was the word of God, then it would contain no contradictions or errors, but it does, which proves that the Bible cannot be the word of God.

Pro still has to answer about the Tomb of Jesus found in Kashmir, which proves Jesus is forever dead, and now he has to answer about the oldest Bible teaching us that Jesus was only human, and not divine, ameen
Debate Round No. 4
thesupporter

Pro

1. If you say that the bible is not a reliable source than you just destroyed a whole part of your first argument
2. "It also says nothing about the virgin birth" it does in (Luke 1:34)
3. I did when I said that the bible said that he did not have sex he used his power to make he pregnant by "power" I mean he used the same "power" to create the world
Mothman

Con

1. "If you say that the bible is not a reliable source than you just destroyed a whole part of your first argument"

No I only used the Bible to refute the Bible. The Bible contradicts itself about nearly everything including the resurrection of Jesus.

I already pointed out that the bible says that resurrected bodies are raised spirits, "1 Corinthians 15:44" but Jesus was not a spirit, "Luke 24:39" This is a contradiction in the Bible and a contradiction to the resurrection claim.

Jesus did not rise from the dead, because he was alive the whole time, The Bible itself confirms this, and I didn't just use the Bible, I used logic, science, and history also.

Pro only used the bible, and it is not a reliable source because it is full of contradictions, Pro never addressed any of these contradictions, especially Pro did not address the contradiction of Jesus not being a spirit if he was resurrected?

2. "It also says nothing about the virgin birth" it does in (Luke 1:34)"

But that is the changed bible, I said that the oldest bible we found does not mention the virgin birth

The oldest bibles we found were in Palestine, and they were the letter of James, and a book written by early Christians, neither of which mention the virgin birth or Jesus' divinity, but say he is the servant of God.

Pro never answered why the oldest Bible treats Jesus as a man and not God or the Son of God?

3. "I did when I said that the bible said that he did not have sex he used his power to make her pregnant by "power" I mean he used the same "power" to create the world"

So Jesus was a created being then? A human created the same way Adam was created.

The Quran says, that Jesus was created the same way Adam was Created. God just said, "Be," and he was.

Adam had no father and no mother, so his birth is more miraculous than Jesus'

Why isn't Adam then considered the Only Begotten Son of God then since his birth was more miraculous.

Furthermore to beget means to have sex.

God cannot have sex, so Jesus could not be the Only Begotten Son of God, because literally for God to have a son, he would need to have sex, which he cannot.

Conclustion:

I have used the Bible, Quran, Science, Logic, and History, to prove Jesus is not alive.

Pro has only used the Bible, which I proven several times is not a reliable source, and has been changed, and other sources should be used besides the Bible to prove a point, but Pro only used the Bible which was a huge mistake in this debate.

I gave many reasons why Jesus could not still be alive.

1. All humans die, Jesus was Human

2. The Bible contradicts itself about the resurrection when it says, that Jesus was not a spirit, when resurrected people are spirits, and it contradicts itself when it talks about the resurrected Jesus eating food.

This account must have some basis then, and prove that Jesus was alive and not some sort of Zombie, therefore was still mortal, and still had to die.

3. I proved that Jesus died in Kashmir, and that his body is still there.

Pro did not answer any of these points, he just kept using the Bible as if it was the Word of God.

I already proved it wasn't

1. I showed that Bart Ehrman suggests that the Bible has been changed, since we don't have the original gospels, but only their copies of their copies which were written hundreds of years later. The Telephone game suggests they would have
changed like that.

2. The oldest Bible, (The letter of James, and a book written by early Christians) proves that Jesus wasn't God, but was human (therefore he had to die) and proves that the current bible which Pro uses has been changed.

Pro did not address either of these points.

Pro only used the Bible to prove that Jesus is still alive, while I used the Bible, Quran, logic, science, and history to prove that Jesus is forever dead, ameen
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Mothman 2 years ago
Mothman
@theAFKlord, if that is what you believe then that is fine, just do more research, so you know both sides of the argument, and pray to God, Allah, Jesus, or whoever is the real God, and may he guide you and bless you brother, ameen

Thankyou ameen
Posted by thesupporter 2 years ago
thesupporter
thanks
Posted by theAFKlord 2 years ago
theAFKlord
while mothman has more detail, you cannot change my mind! my god is forever alive Christian god 100%
Posted by Mothman 2 years ago
Mothman
Ok I will try my best to follow that, please forgive me if I mess up, I just am not used to doing it this way.
Posted by thesupporter 2 years ago
thesupporter
Because I want all the arguments out first so that people can refer back to first statements rather then doing it in the moment
Posted by Mothman 2 years ago
Mothman
What do you mean by 2nd round 1st argument, 3rd round second argument, and 4th round 3rd argument, and 5th round with rebuttals?

Why not 2nd round opening statements, and make the other rounds rebuttals, and the last round a conclusion?

Just I don't understand the way you laid out this debate, but I will try my best to follow the format, ameen
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