The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Chase226
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

it doesn't make sense for most conservatives to like trump economically

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/28/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 205 times Debate No: 94181
Debate Rounds (3)
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dairygirl4u2c

Pro

it doesn't make sense for most conservatives to like trump economically

he supports some protectionism per free trade, but most conservativs like pure free trade. so this can't be a reason they support him economically.

he wants to cut taxes by a trillion dollars a year. he has no serious plans to make any signicant cuts in spending. this will send the national debt into a spiral especially with the current and future deficit without the cuts not even being included w that trillion. there are next to no liberals who want to spend so much that it'd cost a trillion dollars, so all those small government conserativs have no excuse.... big debt is worse than small government, but trump woiuld make big debt and keep governemnt big.

the only way you could support him economically is if you believe in trickle down economics or think tax cuts would cause more revenue than taken in the long run. this has been proven wrong over and over.
Chase226

Con

It makes complete sense, economically and along the lines ideology wise. Some branches of conservatives support free trade, they are called, establishment or neocons. They support free trade, open borders, endless wars on this, that or the other. Trump is an outsider, who has outsider support non traditional conservatives, this includes a wider base than people think, from isolationists, to main street conservatives he has a healthy mix of them all.
His tax plan is the beginning of a slew of changes he will make, simplifying the tax code, securing our border, ending awful trade agreements, deporting all illegal aliens, putting manufacturing back to work, putting ethnic minorities back to work, reforming our government and getting rid of costly bureaucrats and pushing a lot of programs back to the states will save trillions over 10 years. On top of the added job growth by his 15% corporate tax will spur job growth and investment in the US alleviating tax burdens on large corporations and small business's. When has tickle down economics been proven wrong? It worked in the 1980's and 1990's which saw massive economic growth.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

when you talk about things like immigration, you are talking about things incidental to economics. it's not a main point.

but onto your points.

simplifying the tax code
he's just going to lower taxes, that doesn't change the tiered structure or really simply anything over how it is now

securing our border
if you are for free trade you should be for open borders. most conservativses are inconsistent here. you can pay a Mexican a dollar an hour to make pillows in san diego with open borders, or you can pay a Mexican a dollar an hour to make pillows actually in mexico. it's the same thing essentially.

,ending awful trade agreements,
he wants protectionism, which again most conservatives don't like so again this does't count for something they should back him for.

putting manufacturing back to work
this is vague and doesn't say how he would. he's given no plans except if you think tax cuts will put people back to work.

putting ethnic minorities back to work
he has no plan on this it's just random of you to say

reforming our government and getting rid of costly bureaucrats and pushing a lot of programs back to the states will save trillions over 10 years.
where do you come up with that number? he has no plan to get rid of costly programs. anything he says he wants to cut is a drop in the bucket. most people including you probably don't realize how big our deficit is and how hard it is to cut thigns. he doesn't even make a significant effort.

"On top of the added job growth by his 15% corporate tax will spur job growth and investment in the US alleviating tax burdens on large corporations and small business's. "
there might be some job growth from tax cuts as I admitted some economic boom. but this is assuming there's more that you get than from cutting. if bob gets his taxes cut in half, then hires someone and pockets the rest, that's necessarily less revenue the government will get cause he kept a lot of the money. it's overall bad for the economy.

"When has tickle down economics been proven wrong? It worked in the 1980's and 1990's which saw massive economic growth"
trickle down and growth are two different things. trickle down didn't work cause poor people's wages didn't increase and number of jobs just went up and down over that time. as per growth of course there will be some but that's at the cost of going into debt massively as Reagan and bush and to some extent Clinton did. the conservatives are the ones that did it at the cost of debt. that's not good overall for the economy. it's a short term solution. it shows weak leadership of Reagan and bush.
wages just decreased since the 80s.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com...
Chase226

Con

First and Foremost Trump Conservatives are not Bush conservatives, Bush conservatives are Liberal Democrats who support Israel so they became Republicans. Trump conservatives are America First, Not ideology first.
When you are looking at his tax plan, with out economic growth added, over 10 years we are looking at $10.14 trillion dollars, but with an average increase in GDP per year by 5.75% (http://www.crfb.org...)
(http://www.forbes.com...)
Now after the basics, lets look at some things that have been core to Trumps campaign, deportations of all illegal aliens, ending NAFTA, reforming our government and putting America back to work.
Illegal immigration costs the United States, in benefits alone, not lost income, costs the United States over 10 years $1.1 trillion dollars. (http://www.heritage.org...)(http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com...)
Removing all illegal aliens from the United States will open up many jobs that will be available right away to the 4% of the labor force being unemployed and the 92 million Americans out of the labor force. ( http://www.mybudget360.com...) 12 million jobs will open, which will in effect, shrink the deficit, because right now 11.2 million illegals pay 8 billion in taxes, in 3 million households, pay $10,000 per household yet receive $46,000 per house hold. (quoted above)
On top of it all, over 10 years illegals send home 500 billion dollars, which will stay in the United States, creating more jobs.
(http://immigrationreform.com...)
Free trade in the United States doesnt work with 3rd world countries, when in Mexico they can pay auto manufacturers $353 dollars a month, $4236 dollars a year. ( http://www.worldsalaries.org...) when for the same job in Detroit, the average income with benefits is $58 dollars an hour with benefits comes out to over $110,000 dollars a year, taxable income for them is $28 dollars an hour. (http://www.wsj.com...) Since NAFTA, 682,000 jobs have been lost, 60% of which came from manufacturing, if Trump is able to get 1/3 of those jobs back, thats 135,000 auto manufacturing jobs.(http://www.epi.org...) at an average of $28 taxable dollars an hour, thats 58,240 a year, under Trumps plan that is taxed at 10% (compared to 25% now) would bring in over 10 years at, 135,000 times $5824 times by 10 years, with no wage increase, is $7.8 billion dollars in new tax revenue. (http://www.wsj.com...) That is 7.8 billion dollars in new revenue from 1/3 of 60% of jobs lost from NAFTA. Those 135,000 workers will buy cars, houses, food, clothing.update those houses, which will create more jobs. These jobs that come back are high paying jobs, the benefit package covers full health insurance, pension, and annuities. This will help ease strains from our public healthcare system by giving 135000 people jobs, with families will cover 540,000 people who were either on medicaid or uninsured.
One of the examples Trump as mentioned is that competitively bidding our state medical systems out. Saving the United States 3 trillion dollars over ten years.
With 10 trillion dollars being added to the debt with his tax plan alone.
We would save $1.1 trillion dollars on illegal immigration,
8.9 trillion added to the debt
Saving 3 trillion dollars in competitively pricing medicaid,
5.9 trillion added to the debt.
But with the 5.75 GDP growth, our economy would be worth by 2026 $32 trillion dollars.
Adding at a maximum 5.9 trillion to the debt, because with the added job growth and tax revenues that will come, also with the amount of money we will be saving by not having so many people rely on our social programs we will be saving money there too. US debt at a maximum would be $25.2 Trillion, at a maximum without any spending cuts. The better part is, the congressional budget office is aiming for a debt as part of GDP at 75% by 2026, with Trump"s Plan, debt to GDP is 78%.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

even those links about growth v tax cuts admit that revenue would not be neutral or go up for the government... it would go down to the tune of a trillion a year. again, that's a short term solution even if it provides growth it has to be made up for later.

i might be able to agree that illegal immigrants cost too much, but if you use onservative standards agains themselves, they should on the other hand boosst hte economy like free trade does. it's a trade off with no clear plus for conservatives.

i dont count trade to conservatives, cause they are for pure free trade, again. im using their standard.

i dont know hwere you get wed have competitively priced medicaid. ive never heard trump say anything about it and i see no source.
Chase226

Con

You are using Bush conservative standards, not Trump conservative. This is not Mitt Romney's, John McCain, or the Bushes party any more its, Donald Trumps.
Here is the link for competitively priced medicaid (http://money.cnn.com...)
What it comes down to for conservatives is that the last 16 years we have been taken for a ride by the GOP, but the GOP was still a better alternative than the Left, most conservatives do not and have not agreed with the parties economic plans the last 16 years, but went along with it anyways because it was better for them than the lefts. Donald Trump comes along and says everything that the majority of the voters in this election cycle so far have been thinking for years. It makes sense because his plan puts Americans first.
Debate Round No. 3
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