The Instigator
mehak
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points
The Contender
manishagni2004
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

it is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/30/2007 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,849 times Debate No: 129
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (24)
Votes (21)

 

mehak

Pro

according to militon in paradise lost , when lucifer was banished form heaven he said , its better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. a typical old question .today we live in a sin streaked world , a world that is touched by hell . we read about this hell in our daily lives, the murders, pain , sufferings, accidents, corruption. so why not be the ruler of this hell. the world. a clear destiny awaits for all of us there is no escaping hell or heaven , but power reamins power. whether hell or heaven.
manishagni2004

Con

manishagni2004 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
hattopic, you are right! Even though I do not agree with mehak, I had to vote for him since his opponent forfeited.
Posted by hattopic 9 years ago
hattopic
I'm sorry, but how can you vote for someone to win a debate when they forfeited?
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
I see no absurdity. Adam & Eve's actions changed the playing rules for all who folllowed.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
The absurdity, in case you missed it, is saying it (what Adam did and what comes to me because of it) is a consequence of MY actions, and saying I have any free will regarding what Adam supposedly did.
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
Good work, Elfsindor92.

While the first couple were admonished not to eat the apple from the tree, they were not prevented from doing so. Therefore, they used their free will to choose to eat the apple against the express wishes of God.

The consequence of Adam and Eve's action and their choice to use the power given to them is "original sin."
Therefore, the action caused the damnation.

Your sentence, " Plus when you add in the doctrine of original sin, the free will defense becomes even more absurd. It's not a consequence of our actions for "original sin" to damn us, it's a consequence of Adam's actions, and of God for allowing Adam to have that kind of power." agrees except the "absurd" part.
Posted by Elfsindor92 9 years ago
Elfsindor92
Sorry about the double post there...my internet was goofing up
Posted by Elfsindor92 9 years ago
Elfsindor92
"There is no hell or Lucifer in the Bible." - this is actually incorrect. Both of the above are referenced in the Bible.

A few refrences of Hell:
Matthew 5:22
Luke 16:23
2 Peter 2:4
Revelation 20:10

The story of Lucifer;
Before Lucifer's Sin:
Ezek. 28:12-15

After Lucifer's rebellion/result of rebellion:
Isa. 14:12-15
Revelation 12:4 - this is talking about how the tail of the dragon swept a third f the tars from the sky. This is in reference to the third of the angels which Lucifer brought against God in his rebellion.
Posted by Elfsindor92 9 years ago
Elfsindor92
"There is no hell or Lucifer in the Bible." - this is actually incorrect. Both of the above are referenced in the Bible.

A few refrences of Hell:
Matthew 5:22
Luke 16:23
2 Peter 2:4
Revelation 20:10

The story of Lucifer;
Before Lucifer's Sin:
Ezek. 28:12-15

After Lucifer's rebellion/result of rebellion:
Isa. 14:12-15
Revelation 12:4 - this is talking about how the tail of the dragon swept a third f the tars from the sky. This is in reference to the third of the angels which Lucifer brought against God in his rebellion.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Exactly. Can't call it the consequences of our actions alone when he supposedly invented the laws which match those consequences to those actions. Free will would only count for anything if he weren't omnipotent, since he is (according to your religion), he chooses the nature of reality. If I want to live in a world where, say, promiscuity DOESN'T result in hellfire, your God tells me no, denying me freedom.

Plus when you add in the doctrine of original sin, the free will defense becomes even more absurd. It's not a consequence of our actions for "original sin" to damn us, it's a consequence of Adam's actions, and of God for allowing Adam to have that kind of power.

You are free to tell me these doctrines are not part of your idea of Christianity (as an atheist I have no authority there) but you would then have to define a different basis for your religion than the Bible.
Posted by CaiMoon 9 years ago
CaiMoon
I found Paradise Lost to be a very interesting take. The quote is also quite famous, as many people have taken it as their personalmantra.

I just wanted to add that God did "damn" us in the bBible. 'He' gave us free will, and we make choices, and 'he' does forgive us, sure. But it was 'his' choice to make what was bad, bad, and what was good, good. It is 'his' own choice we must live by, despite what may be better for us. Really, since the BibleGod is made up, it is just a theoretical restriction. If I believed in the Bible and thought it was true, I would study it more closely in the context it is supposed to be understood in. One which the Church construed. There is no hell or Lucifer in the Bible. "Lucifer" was a prophecy about a king or leader and the King James version translated it to a name for the star rather than the fact they were talking about a star (Venus). Hell is "Gehenna" in the bible, a place where trash and refuse was burned, and Jesus used it as a metaphor. He was not talking about a place. Of course the church and translations construed the original meanings... Milton did write a very compelling epic poem based on it, however!
21 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by VenomousNinja 9 years ago
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