The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Lightningstar
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

it is the most reasonable interpretation of the bible 2 say that some nonchristians can be saved

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Lightningstar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/25/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,533 times Debate No: 59542
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (2)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

it is the most reasonable interpretation of the bible to say that some nonchristians can be saved

there are four major points in the bible that i can think of regarding salvation of nonchristians.

one is around John 3:16 where it says something to the effect of... "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not parish, but have ever lasting life. for God did not send his son to condemn the world, but that that world should be saved through him. and those who do not believe stand already condemned. and this is the condemnation, that God sent the light, but the people rejected the light because their ways were dark".

one is in a different spot in John where he says something to the effect of "unless you believe that I AM he, you will die in your sins".

one is at the end of Mark, where he says "go forth baptizing people in the name of the father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. those who believe and are baptize will be saved, those who don't, will be condemned".

and there are a few spots in the nongospels part of the new testament, where it says things like "those who engage in immorality will be thrown in along with unbelievers".

the way to interpret these verses. the first three verses here have a presupposition to condemnation.... rejecting Jesus. And, the first example gave a very specific response on that rejection.... rejecting cause your ways are dark. the last verse gives the indication that 'nonbelievers are condemned". but, if you read the verses holistically, a nonbeliever could and should be considered someone who rejects Jesus, and the least common denominator of all the verses indicates that that rejection should include rejecting Jesus cause your ways are dark.

so we see that non only could a hypothetical man on an island who has never heard of Jesus be saved, so could so many people who reject Jesus, but reject him for reasons other than their ways being dark.

indeed, an englightened mind who rejects the truth, has trouble in store for him.
Lightningstar

Con

I accept your challenge.

I'll start with your interpretation of John 3:16 this is a classic context argument you are referring to a passage where Jesus is talking about being born again. It says very specifically in the Bible that the only way to be saved is to be born again we must repent and in order to repent you must repent your sins hense this verse "I tell you... unless you repent: you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:5)

Also take a gander at this
Matthew 7:21-23King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

This shows us that not just action or speech will save you the Bible says that you must be born again to be saved from hell.

You are correct about it saying "unless you believe that I AM he, you will die in your sins". Again context if you read the plan of salvation carefully you can see that you can seen that you need more. Take a look at the Romans road of salvation http://www.stufffundieslike.com...
It clearly explains that there is only one way to heaven a fact the bible explains very clearly many times.

(Do me a favor the next time you use a verse please give the address it would make finding it more easy thanks)to be born he
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

for some reason, con starts talking about john 316 then diverges to the born again verses, and doesn't get into either verse, and then talks about the need for repentance. a couple points about the repent verse... it too has the presuppsition to it of having known and heard "i tell you..." before the required action. also, this verse doesn't specfiically mention Jesus, just repentence. a person can repent according to the natural laws written in man's heart.

the "Lord, lord" verses doesn't have anything to do with this debate, as we are talkng about nonchristians, not fake christians, which that verse applies to.

the romans road stuff. and the need for jesus stuff. to be clear, those non christians that can be saved, are still saved through Jesus. so as he often says, he is the only way.

i gave what i knew to be the only verses that specifically list how nonchritians will be condemned. con doesn't negate anything i said, and gave no other verses that gave that level of specificity, or verses that say they will be condemned. con gives a bunch of verses that are not at all applicable.
Lightningstar

Con

My opponent just made my job a lot easier by saying and I do quote "so as he often says, he is the only way." Jesus is the only way He is in fact the way, the truth, and the life. As being the only way Jesus makes it abundantly clear that his way is by His forgiveness.
Take a look at this God has told us that "... it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). Revelations 20:11-15, explains this that in this judgment all the unsaved will be judged according to their works and cast eternally into the Lake of Fire. The reasons is they would not believe God and accept His free offer of forgiveness. The only way to be saved is to accept Gods forgiveness.

Jesus explains this very clearly when He said He was the Door to Heaven (John 10:9), and in John 14:6, He expanded on that thought: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but though Me." In order for us to have eternal life, we must receive Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. There is no other way or deviation.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Lightningstar

Con

I extend my argument.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by evangambit 3 years ago
evangambit
Sagey, your comments are provocative in ways that they really don't have to be if your goal is to educate or argue. Regardless of whether you think a different view point is valid or correct, respecting other people does far more good than trying to "spread truth" is a manner that seems designed to be hurtful.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Knowledge of Nonsense (theology) contains No Truth whatsoever.
Jesus Christ could never have been a Messiah, he did not fulfill the Jewish criteria to be such.
The Gospels are full of Lies.
There is no evidence even a single miracle happened, Saul who wrote 15 years earlier, did not mention those that were fabricated in the Gospels.
There is no evidence the Resurrection even occurred, nor that Jesus Christ was in a tomb, it is far more historically correct to say that Jesus Christ was thrown into a mass grave along with the others he was executed alongside.

Though since Jesus Christ failed to be truly considered as the Son of King David, as Luke falsely stated, then not only could he not be the Messiah, the resurrection of a non-Messiah would make no sense whatsoever as he could not be Divine in the Judaic tradition.

Thus Christianity really makes no sense and yes, your knowledge is Pitiful.
Hardly worth wasting storage space in anybody's brain for your knowledge and LMGiG's.
The only term for your knowledge is Anti-Knowledge.
Most Christian, and Creationist Knowledge is in fact Anti-Knowledge.
Because no real knowledge Exits in it.
:-D~
Posted by Lightningstar 3 years ago
Lightningstar
Its funny I've never been hated for my knowledge of the truth before. It's a new experience for me. yourself
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
ok, I'll check on you now and then to see how you are doing, looks like you are doing just fine with the Lord.......so i'll stay in the background more.........hard for me to watch as a devil minded hater against God tries to pull a brother down to his mud puddle.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Keep your eyes on the Lord, that's all. Don't worry about petty attacks........all that matters is God loves you and died in your place to pay for your sins and in His resurrection you have eternal life through faith in His blood. Don't let the devil drag you down over denominational distinctions. Lay up your treasures in heaven, serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling, He has not dealt with us according to our sins. Don't let devil minded smarty pants people who are angry, because they feel God let them down somehow, bring you down. Keep reading your Bible, keep praying and asking God to reveal Jesus and His will for you through His Word......and praise the LORD!!!!!!!
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Keep your eyes on the Lord.........He is the one who is hated, you are among wolves here. The devil used the Word of God to try to trip up Jesus, and the devil will do the same with you. Just remember, Christ is your life, you are dead (your sin has been nailed to the cross) and your life (the new creation, Christ in you) is hid with Christ in God. The devil seeks to devour and destroy. Christ gives us the victory.....He is our victory. Fear not.
Posted by Lightningstar 3 years ago
Lightningstar
Now that's a miracle I'd like to see.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
we know the Great Physician........wouldn't it be wonderful to see our attacker freed from the anger caused by whatever has pained him so he lashes out against God?
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
You did excellent in your brief comment ephathizing with the pain that guy makes obsious in the way he attacks. I hope you check out the way he responed to you in the comments. You were right, the man has been hurt a lot and the pain has not healed. I was very proud of you there.
Posted by Lightningstar 3 years ago
Lightningstar
You forget about peter preaching in the street which is the event I'm referring to.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
dairygirl4u2cLightningstarTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro Forfeited!
Vote Placed by Daltonian 3 years ago
Daltonian
dairygirl4u2cLightningstarTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff