The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
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The Contender
mostlogical
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

it isnt logical to believe the following

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/3/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 227 times Debate No: 79338
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

why believe there is a good nut, or a bad nut in the nutshell before opening it
mostlogical

Con

Thanks for creating this debate.


My opponent believes it is illogical for someone to believe there is either a good or bad nut in the nutshell before opening it. I think he is right to some degree as it can be illogical, however I will atempt to challenge his view and try to prove it can be logical to think this.



There are two forms of logic, they are emotional and logical (or masculine and feminine)

What is logic? I believe it is a way of thinking to get to a particular goal

It is logical when the goal achieved is high, and illogical when the goal achieved is low

Women achieve their high goal by following their feelings - this is logical for them but illogical for men. This means they think 'it is this way OR that way'

The opposite of emotion is basically thinking - it is logical for men to do this to achieve their high goal. This means they think 'it is this way AND that way' or in other words it is logical for men to think they can DO anything.


Although it would be illogical for me to think there is either a good or bad nut inside a closed nutshell (because I have a masculine goal) it is logical for a woman to think 'a good/bad nut is inside simply because other nutshells contain nuts'


I eagerly await your argument. d:-)

Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

logic is not logical and not illogical, right is logical, right is reason

reason is the opposite of logic, logic is true

poison=unhealthy(logic)

logical=dont eat poisonous things to stay healthy=right

there is no logic in fantasy, i cant die in a dream as i can only die if i am alive

Theres is only 1 true positive emotion, its joy

but i agree mental emotion is an effect of thinking mostly

does thought determine what is actually logical? if you pick up a mushroom and eat it, does it matter what you think is going to happen if the mushroom is poisonous?

there is either a good or bad nut inside the nutshell, there is no other option, why is it more logical to believe one over the other?
mostlogical

Con

My opponent asks "does thought determine what is actually logical? if you pick up a mushroom and eat it, does it matter what you think is going to happen if the mushroom is poisonous?"

logical = good reasoning = selfish + selfless e.g. stay alive and well = happiness

Joy/happiness = high goal

I think we agree on those but correct me if I'm wrong. It does matter if you think a mushroom is poisonous even after you have eaten it because you can then warn someone else to avoid eating the same type of mushroom, or mushrooms in that area


1st arguement

Belief = means to achieve a goal

It is logical for a hetrosexual man to believe/think 'if I can, someone else can' or think he has ability because he can only be happy by making someone else happy since two people can't be happy for the exact same reason at the same time.

It is illogical for a hetrosexual woman to believe/think 'if I can, someone else can' or think she lacks ability because this will not make her feel special/happy, so it is logical for her to have an emotional goal i.e. believe/think something else e.g. 'if I can't, someone else can'.

There are two ways of thinking, they are 'this way or that way' and 'this way and that way'. Either way of thinking can be logical.

You believe "it is not logical for someone to believe there is a good or bad nut in the nutshell before opening it". However when a woman's life depends on this belief it is logical for her to believe this, as it would help her to learn by trial and error, and live = high goal.

Since the nut has grown somewhere else I do not know whether or not it just looks the same on the outside as a nut I've seen before. Therefore I might believe "there is a high probability of there being a nut inside" instead of assuming there definately is. I wouldn't want to waste vital energy unless there was a good enough chance.

Either of these ways of thinking can be logical.


2nd argument

It is logical to believe "there is a good nut, or a bad nut in the nutshell before opening it" because good + bad are subjective qualities. A person must decide for their self whether a nut is good or bad before they see, smell, touch or taste it.








Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

good reasoning, dosnt "determine" that it is good reasoning, its the apple that is healthy, that makes it logical to eat, not thoughts making the apple healthy

your thoughts dosnt matter to the effect of you eating the mushroom, as in you can not alter the mushroom into healthy for eksample or change the effect of eating it by thought, the poisonous mushroom is the cause of the effect not your thoughts

belief=achieve a false goal

belief is illogical, not knowledge, but false

i have no beliefs

do you know that i am wearing a hat right as you read this?
mostlogical

Con

Once you have eaten a mushroom it is still worth asking yourself whether it might be poisonous because you can still bring swallowed food up again to the mouth by thinking about it i.e. regurgitate. Also, you may want to warn others if you have doubts, so it is worth thinking about even after swallowing a strange mushroom.

There are circumstances where it is logical to eat an apple you would normally consider to be "bad" e.g. when eating solely to survive. Good and bad are subjective terms - determined by your point of view.

I sincerely doubt you have no beliefs. Nobody knows everything. Do you know if there is an afterlife or not?

Belief = logical. When a woman believes/thinks 'if I can't, someone else can' to achieve a high goal, she can't know if someone else can do what she can't unlike a man who knows that someone else can do what he can.

Believing something when you don't know might not be necessary for you, but I don't think you can prove belief is unnecessary (illogical) for everyone.

And no, I don't know if you are wearing a hat at this time. Maybe you can tell me what this proves
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

you are setting up a different scenario where you know you ate a mushroom, you dont know wheather or not the nut inside the nutshell which we can just grant that you know there is a nut in it somehow but you dont know if its a good or bad nut inside it, so it it logical to believe either before you open it?

so your point of view determine that drinking battery acid when you try to survive keeps you healthy?

know is everything, belief only applies when i dont know so by default i know things

the opposite is possible so any belief is illogical, as it could be false, therfore is not true, and illogical is not real
mostlogical

Con

I'm confused. Your question about the mushroom was:

"if you pick up a mushroom and eat it, does it matter what you think is going to happen if the mushroom is poisonous?"

Why do you think I'm changing the scenerio? Surely I would know if I ate a mushroom after picking it up and eating it.


No-one can be 100% sure there will be a nut inside without opening the shell. It is logical for a woman to believe there will be either a bad nut or a good nut inside based on experience, and it's logical for a man to believe there is a high probability of there being a nut inside. His belief will tell him what is a good or bad nut based on his circumstances. It is natural to consider possibilities based on expectations.

Drinking battery acid is not good for you. I know this not from learning by trial and error but by just following warnings given by other people and paying particular attention to those I can trust most.


Okay so if you don't believe in anything because you only choose to know things, how can you make decisions? If you don't think about about the probability of what is inside, there would be no reason to open the nutshell to find out what is inside. If you are curious you must want to find something and will believe there is a chance of finding it.

Belief = necessary to achieve a high goal

It is thus logical to have a belief

Therefore it is logical to believe things such as "there is a good nut, or a bad nut in the nutshell before opening it"
Debate Round No. 4
mostlogical

Con

Thanks for having this debate with me, it has been interesting.

Please leave your comments and don't forget to vote. Thanks







Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
these equations are my own thou, i dont believe in science, science dosnt know what logic is yet it seams
Posted by Tough 1 year ago
Tough
I am posting this RFD in order to get my voting privileges back:

Conduct - equal as neither made any severe ad hominem attack or slur in any form.

Spelling and grammar - Con made no errors other than 'arguement' (anything else you think is an error is because he is using British English) but Pro forgets to capitalize and, in many places, used either totally wrong punctuation or punctuation in places where ti shouldn't be used at all (or missed it out entirely). Examples include round 1 and 3 where the ends of sentences simply had nothing on them at all or the beginning letter of almost every sentence being lowercase.

Arguments - Pro's argument was essentially that logical ideas can be drawn only from scientific practise/evidence and using this information in a new context (his R2 was most prominent in displaying this if one took the time to understand his equations and rhetorical questions). Con not only rebuts this by stating that to be logical ones reasoning merely needs to be more good than it is poor and that happiness is the highest goal of happiness. What this debate really came down to, in my opinion, is that since bad/good are purely subjective variables, no objective observation of the nut need be made in order to declare it good or bad. This wasn't even rebutted nor touched on by any of pro's points and therefore Con wins.

Sources - neither side used any.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
do you know that i am wearing a hat as you read this?*
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
do you know that i am wearing a hat right as you read this?
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
bad nut=anything beyond my exptation of a good nut

:)
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