The Instigator
linate
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
CountCheechula
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

jesus contradicted himself regarding use of violence

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
CountCheechula
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 373 times Debate No: 60026
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

linate

Pro

jesus contradicted himself regarding use of violence

how do all of the following things reconcile? i actually have some theories but they could be better, and am curious if there's anything better.

Jesus told people not to intervene in his arrest process:
"And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53"Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"

yet when jesus was before pilate during the arrest, he said if this were his kingdom people would be fighting for him:
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

at another point, jesus said to 'turn the other cheek'.

at another point, jesus said "let he who is without a sword go and get one"
CountCheechula

Con

Context

The whole Pilate ordeal was symbolic to a sense. Fighting could of meant with words or peaceful actions. Not literally fighting with swords. Also Jesus knew His kingdom was not of this realm so it did not matter anyway. Jesus always stood for peace and acceptance. Also please supply the Book and verse of the "let he who is without a sword go and get one". This debate cannot really be forth for any additional arguments so so far I can just rebuttal. Thanks.

P.S. I know you are a Christian, I am to and I would like that we both capitalize Jesus it is a name after all.
Debate Round No. 1
linate

Pro

jesus said not to fight back when they were arresting him. he then told pilate that if his kingdom was of this world, he'd be fighting back.

the most straightforward interpretation is that Jesus wascontradicting himsef. he could have just been saying if he wasnt allowing himself to be sacrified as would be the case if this was his world, he wouldn't fight back but given this isn't his world, he is allowing himself to be sacrified.

the sword verse is inthe comments section.
CountCheechula

Con

Thanks for the verse in the comments, sadly it contradicts your notion.
"Jacques Ellul and John Howard Yoder do not believe Luke 22:36 overturns the many times Jesus urged his followers to practice turning the other cheek and not resist evil when confronted by violence during his Sermon on the Mount and years of ministry. They show when the passage is taken in context (Luke 22:36-38), Jesus is also aware of fulfilling prophecy and makes a surprising statement that two swords are "enough". More commonly, the phrase is understood to mean Jesus has had enough of the topic[1]"

Still that is the whole point, he cannot contradicts himself because His kingdom will never be of this world. Until the New Earth of course but I am getting off subject. Your link disagrees with you and if anyone wants to look further here is the link again in the actual debate floor.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

My proof still stands firm until you can show me an actual verse of Jesus saying something to promote violence that contradicted himself regarding the use of violence.
Debate Round No. 2
linate

Pro

the only way it'd not be a contradiction is if he was basically saying "it's not worth fighting for as my kindgom is not of this world".... 'but if my kindgom was, it would be worth fighting"

this doesn't seem to be the gist of what was said, but cangive benefit of the doubt
CountCheechula

Con

Linate you clearly don not understand the difference between not meaning anything because it is irrelevant and supporting something. Jesus was, is, and never will be for violence, ever. He always stood for peace, He was saying that if it WAS it could be possibly destroyed and let the truth be abolished. But again as I have said before it is not so it does not simply matter.
Some men can find claims with the gospels somewhat contradicting themselves if you look at it by an extreme skeptical standpoint. But Jesus never contradicted himself on anything including violence. Jesus was an amazing man. He was the perfect human, never to be conceived with sin. Contradicting your self makes you a hypocrite and hypocrisy is a sin. So even if He did He would of lost favor from his father. Which means He would of never been raised from the dead so on and so forth the story becomes just a simple life of a Jew. Jesus was perfect and would never contradict any of His teachings including violence because well He is the Messiah and Messiahs do not contradict themselves, ever.
Thanks for the debate and I hope you see clearly on this subject, stay good my friend and always peace be with you through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by CountCheechula 2 years ago
CountCheechula
Sorry for the grammar and spelling errors I have.
Posted by emilylim22 2 years ago
emilylim22
Oh, I would also like to know the chapter, verse, and book of, "let he who is without a sword go and get one"
Posted by emilylim22 2 years ago
emilylim22
I believe what Jesus meant when he said, "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." (Luke 6:29 NIV) Is not to exact revenge. There is a popular saying nowadays, if goes something like this. "An eye for an eye." Basically, he meant the opposite of that.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Cold-Mind 2 years ago
Cold-Mind
linateCountCheechulaTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: As Con said is some way, word "fighting" is Jesus' statement means "putting an effort to achieve something", rather than "causing harm to other people".
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
linateCountCheechulaTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed instances shown to be symbolic/rhetorical.