The Instigator
icetiger200
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
samerbmajeed
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

jesus didn't mention homosexuality

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/8/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 753 times Debate No: 83613
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

icetiger200

Pro

Why do christians say that homosexual marriage is wrong if jesus never mentioned a word about it?

I'll let my opponent state his/her argument then I will attempt to counter it in the next round.
samerbmajeed

Con

Although I am a Christian, I am not going to allow my personal views on homosexuality reflect on my argument. Rather, I will simply use biblical evidence to support a thesis. While Jesus Christ himself may not have spoken out against homosexuality, the Bible does maintain a negative standing when it comes to the belief. Most Christians accept the Bible as fact, and all stated in the Bible, whether the words of Jesus Christ or not, should be accepted as true and righteous by all Christians. By using this statement, we can conclude that the beliefs of most Christians pertaining to homosexuality are directly derived from the entire Bible, not just verbatim quotes from the Messiah. Leviticus 20:13 states the following, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them." (KJV). This verse directly reflects the negative views of the Bible towards homosexuals. However, the Bible also indirectly condemns homosexuality, not just directly. Consider Jude 1:7. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (KJV). Here, the Bible clearly disgraces on the many sexually immoral sins, one of which being sodomy. Sodomy is sexual intercourse pertaining to anal or oral sex; or essentially, anything outside of "PIV", or "penis in vagina". Therefore, if this practice is condemned, how can two homosexuals copulate righteously according to Christian doctrine? It is simply impossible.
Debate Round No. 1
icetiger200

Pro

jesus never condemned homosexuality at all. That is just on your head. Nor does the bible say anything about the Sodomites being gay. You know the word sodomy is only about 400 years old right? No obviously you didn't. yet you have drawn the conclusion that the bible condemns the sodomites for anal and oral sex. that's fine as long as you admit that those are two sex acts performed by straight people. men have anal sex with women and men receive blowjobs from women. and if christians think that God would murder people over blowjobs, then Christians have seriously messed up issues.
It's Interesting people on the evils of heterosexuality according to the bible. but they already knew that. I'm sure you condemn heterosexuals all the time don't you. you just call them fornicators and adulterers because it's more PC that way.
samerbmajeed

Con

If you want to attack me personally without having any real knowledge on my beliefs, that's fine. Just know you are poking the wrong bear. When I opened my argument I specifically said that I would use doctrinal evidence directly from the Bible to show that the Bible does, in fact, condemn homosexuality; not that I MYSELF condemn the practice, because I don't. You are just assuming this because you are clearly a close-minded, insensitive person who would like to stereotype all Christians as being "gay-haters". Should you have taken a gander at my political views in my profile, you would have seen that I am actually pro-gay rights, as I feel as a heterosexual that I couldn't care less what other people do but rather I would like to see others pursuing their own happiness. My personal beliefs about religion may not apply to them, and that is okay. I don't condemn heterosexuals all the time for fornication and such, mainly because I am one. Your argument about the origin of the word sodomy is invalid for the simple reason that the creation of a word does not signal the creation of an idea. The concept of sodomy is an ancient one, and you are right: the Bible does condemn all acts of sodomy, not just those of the homosexual. The problem with your argument about heterosexuals (as it seems since I can barely understand what is a near illiterate final paragraph) is that Christians who use the Bible as their source of opinion on the topic do in fact condemn acts of sodomy in heterosexuals and homosexuals. However, you have to be quite ignorant to believe that all Christians scrutinize, belittle, and oppress all homosexuals for their "unholy" acts, when really, quite a lot of them are relatively unevangelical and relatively passive, apathetic, or even open-minded on the matter. However, your question asked why some Christians do condemn homosexuality, and I feel I answered this question properly. When you look at the Bible, which many Christians use as their sole source of what they believe is right or wrong, you clearly see that this act is not justified by any means. You have to be pretty simple minded to think that the Bible does not actually condemn homosexuality and sodomy. It is right in front of you. However, because Christians believe (per the Bible) that God sent Jesus Christ to die and save all from their sins (within circumstances of course), this means that those who perform these acts do have a chance at redemption, and will not go "straight to hell", as some may interperet. You also failed to answer my question I posed to you in my first argument: how can two homosexuals have sex in a righteous way according to the Bible?
Debate Round No. 2
icetiger200

Pro

I will answer your question. Christians believe that having sex is fine as long as the couple are married. The bible doesn't say anything about how to have sex. It doesn't say that it should only be used for procreation. So if christians think that a marriage certificate can change the sin of heterosexuality into something nonsinfull, then they should be able to think the same for homosexuality. But since most of them don't it just proves that their homophobia isn't actually based on the bible.A279;
samerbmajeed

Con

I am struggling to find a piece of accurate information in your previous argument. First of all, Christians do not believe that all sex is permissible so long as the couple is married. The only sins that marriage creates immunity to is fornication, although adultery would then be possible. First Corinthians 4:8 clearly states "Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV). Notice how not only does this verse directly condemn homosexuality, it also condemns sexual immorality separate from adultery and other forms of sinful intercourse. It looks like in Matthew 19:2, the Pharisees are asking you a question ; "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.'" Looks like you did not read that, did you? Most Christians do not view a marriage certificate can change anything, but rather, many Christians that marriage between a man and a woman is much more than a mere document, but rather, a unification of two people into one, physically, especially during sex. Read the story of Sodom and Gomorrha and come back and try to convince me that this story does not heavily imply the Bible's disapproval of homosexual, extra-marital, and non-missionary sex. Here is another question: why would so many Christians, many of which whose views are based on a religion whose primary foundation is love, would condemn a group of people for reasons outside of their holy doctrine? Again, I do not believe it is correct to do this, all I am arguing is that you cannot deny that the Bible itself speaks out against homosexuality, although I myself may not.
Debate Round No. 3
icetiger200

Pro

I will answer your question. Christians believe that having sex is fine as long as the couple are married. The bible doesn't say anything about how to have sex. It doesn't say that it should only be used for procreation. So if christians think that a marriage certificate can change the sin of heterosexuality into something nonsinfull, then they should be able to think the same for homosexuality. But since most of them don't it just proves that their homophobia isn't actually based on the bible.
samerbmajeed

Con

Well, since you seemingly decided to copy and paste your argument from Round 3, also failing to answer the question I asked in my rebuttal to your Round 3 question, perhaps I can interpret this as a white flag. Looks like this debate was won prematurely.
Debate Round No. 4
icetiger200

Pro

Sorry about the other post. This website was glitching up on me.

the sexual immoral are the heterosexuals, see how they are separate from the homosexuals. So you need to clarify your definition of fornication. Is it two unmarried heterosexuals having sex? Or is it two unmarried heterosexuals having sex in a non-committed relationship. Because of it is the latter then a lot of christians have it wrong. They think that you need a little piece of paper to stop the ducking of two heterosexuals from being a sin. And many would condemn two heterosexuals in a committed monogamous relationship as being sexual immoral and fornicators. So please clear that up because many christians seem to be confused about that.
Actually you need to show where the bible implies anything about heterosexuals blowjobs and doggy style type of sex being the cause. Because I can guarantee you that that isn't in there.
Many christians claim that love everyone when they clearly are filled with hatred. Religion has always been used to justify atrocities, especially by those who don't understand the religion but sees it as a useful tool for their own personal agenda.
I never denied that the bible speaks out against homosexuality. The bible is filled with all kinds of stupid things. Like the way it speaks out against heterosexuality.A279;
samerbmajeed

Con

As someone new to debate.org, I can already tell it has severe issues with glitching. Therefore, I apologize for my unfair and false accusation. I digress. To clear up what you have asked me to, fornication is simply sexual intercourse of any kind (whether sodomy or not) before marriage between heterosexuals or homosexuals. And again, most Christians who have negative views on fornication do not believe that marriage is just a "little piece of paper" as you called it. However, these Christians often believe that to be united in holy matrimony, the Bible in many cases mentions (of which I, for timesake, will leave out since you never once refuted any of the textual evidence I proposed) how marriage is a pact between two people to become one for eternity, an ultimate honor in the eyes of God. Just how important marriage can be to these Christians is stressed in this verse (yes, , "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled." (Hebrews 13:4). Again, I can't speak for all Christians. All I can tell you is what is in the Bible. And the Bible deems fornication as a sin, thus, should two heterosexuals in a monogamous relationship have sex, it is still fornication and sexually immoral. Now, do I believe that every fornicator is going to hell and is evil. Absolutely not. In fact, I could care less about what other people do. All you asked is from what do Christians gain this condemnation for homosexuals, and the true answer (whether you want to accept it or not) is from where all Christians derive their beliefs: the Bible. You ask a fair question about anal and oral sex. While the Bible does not explicitly mention the two, it is heavily implied in the story of Sodom and Gomorrha that the men of Sodom sought to anally gang-rape the angels God had sent to the town in the form of two men. If you never truly denied that the Bible speaks out against homosexuality how can you seriously question why Christians disagree with homosexuality, even though it is strictly mentioned in their very own holy book? You cannot possibly be that hypocritical. You created this entire debate asking where Christians derive their disapproval about homosexuality and then admit that their the Bible, the source of what is right and wrong for most Christian religious beliefs, speaks out against it. You just answered your own question in the form of my argument. On top of that, you decided to pose a new question about how the Bible "is filled with all kinds of stupid things". Let's finish the debate before opening up a new can of worms, shall we?
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whatshouldIdo 1 year ago
whatshouldIdo
I can't vote yet either, apparently I have to have participated in at least three debates.
Posted by samerbmajeed 1 year ago
samerbmajeed
Rookie Apologist - I understand. What a pity. It seems as if a lot would vote in favor of my argument, but nobody has voted at all yet. What a shame.
Posted by RookieApologist 1 year ago
RookieApologist
I would but apparently am too new here to vote yet.
Posted by samerbmajeed 1 year ago
samerbmajeed
RookieApologist - I agree with you one hunderd percent. I hope you will vote in favor of my argument.
Posted by RookieApologist 1 year ago
RookieApologist
Just for the record, and now that this debate is over, even though Jesus doesn't say the word "homosexual", that doesn't mean he doesn't condemn it. He condemned all sexually immoral acts, including homosexuality (Mark 7:21). He also said that marriage is between a man and woman (Matthew 19:5). Furthermore, just because Jesus doesn't explicitly condemn an act doesn't imply that he endorses it, or that it isn't a sin. It is also a sin to treat homosexuals as any worse people than heterosexuals, for the record.
Posted by samerbmajeed 1 year ago
samerbmajeed
Good debate icetiger23. I hope everyone will vote on who they thought won.
Posted by Hutch96 1 year ago
Hutch96
This is assuming one specific religion is correct, very unlikely...
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
Good that there is one who knows his virgin gods sex ideals.
Posted by ZacGraphics 1 year ago
ZacGraphics
I respect your opinion, but that makes very little sense. God created sex, but the world has twisted it into a different, perverted form of using lust, rather than love. The rear is not a sexual organ, but this idea is a perfect example of how the sinning nature of humans has changed God's ideals of sex.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
Well. Your god can not know anything about sex. How could he ? If he did, he would know that a mans rear is a "sexual organ" to gay men... But what he thinks about when he takes a wank.. Only god knows.
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