The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
NoMagic
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

know=physical experiecne of now

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
NoMagic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/16/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 690 times Debate No: 65245
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (2)

 

vi_spex

Pro

I know I am typing these words on my keyboard, I don't have to imagine it
NoMagic

Con

How do you know you are typing on a keyboard? An Ant has a physical experience of now, but does it have knowledge?
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

i physically experience it, I can feel that im touching each button as I type a letter, and I can see what im typing on my screen

I don't know if ants have intent, if they do they have knowledge, if they have no intent and act randomly or based on some natural programmed instincts and have no intent I don't know but then they are not intending anything, so its random and they have no knowledge, no free will
NoMagic

Con

You THINK you are physically experiencing the typing. You THINK you are seeing the letters pop up on the screen. But how do you know the experience is authentic? How do you know you are not a simulation?

The Ant. Your claim is that a physical experience=know(knowledge). An Ant is clearly experiencing a physical experience or input (maybe authentic or not) but does the ant have knowledge? Your claim is yes. Please explain how you know the ant has knowledge because it has some experience.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

if i close my eyes I cant see reality, and if I think I can see reality I still cant see reality because my eyes are closed, so my eyes being open or closed determine weather I see reality or not

I have to simulate that I am a simulation, while my physical experience is real, and I have to believe what I imagine, and belief is false, so its true to say I don't know and not that I am in a simulation, but I know I have to imagine it and imagination is false, I know my experience of now

if I am with you physically and I say to you hey man, I am being now, my experience is now, you cant argue with that

if you close your eyes you cant see is absolute so your eyes are matter and matter is real, logic is absolute and only truly happens in reality, there is no true logic in my imagination

know is not knowledge
know=(is)Physical experience of now=true=now
knowledge=memory=truth=past

im saying I don't know if ants have intent, if they have intent they have knowledge and free will to some extent

your physical experience is authentic because you don't want me to burn you with a lighter? would you want me to do that and if not why not, I mean you can imagine I am burning your arm in your imagination, but nothing happens, I can burn your arm off, and nothing happen, no pain and you are not angry, I can do it again, a creation of the mind, a lie

my neighbor is imaginary right now, as I have to imagine him to experience him
NoMagic

Con

You BELIEVE your are experiencing things. However, you don't KNOW if that is a true experience. Tell me how you KNOW it is true. Your claim is that experience=knowledge. How does your knowledge KNOW the experience is correct?

You don't have to simulate anything to be the simulation. Do the Sim City characters simulate themselves? No. The programs simulates them. How do you know you aren't a simulation?

A thermostat experiences now moments. Does a thermostat have knowledge?

I don't want you to burn me with a lighter because I will feel pain. But that doesn't mean the pain I feel is real. I might be a simulation.

How do I KNOW that my experience of you being with me physically is a true experience?

What if this is all just one elaborate simulation? Tell me how you KNOW that isn't the case.

What if you are in a coma? What if everything you feel you are EXPERIENCING is happening while you are in a coma. Tell me how you KNOW that isn't the case.

"I'm saying I don't know if ants have intent,....." Actually you are making this claim. You are claiming now experiences=know(knowledge) The ants have now experiences. If your claim is true, they must have knowledge. If you concede you don't know the ant has knowledge then you concede the debate. Do you concede the debate?

The thermostat has a now experience. When the temperature in the room drops below 70 degrees, the thermostat experiences that, a switch is tripped, the thermostat turns the heat on. The thermostat has had a now experience. Therefore you claim the thermostat has knowledge. Tell me how the thermostat has knowledge.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

know is true, and belief is false

my claim is that knowledge is memory

the sim characters are in a simulation, in a designed computer, computers cant exist without designers as they are intended, not random like each different branch of a tree springs out in different directions as it grows large over time

I have to imagine I am in a simulation and imagination is false

belief=be lie

a thermostat has no experience, as its not alive

I have to imagine I am in a coma, therefore its true to say I don't know, as I have to imagine it, but if you can read this I am as real as you, as I have exist in reality to send this message
NoMagic

Con

A thermostat has an experience.
The temperature is the experience.
The temperature causes the switch in the thermostat to switch.
An experience has happened.
The thermostat has had a now experience.
The thermostat has no knowledge.
Physical experience of now=know(knowledge), your claim is false.

You don't have to be alive to have an experience. The thermostat proves that. The switch experienced a temperature change. Your premise is false.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

there is no experience involved, a rock dosnt experience it if I kick it
NoMagic

Con

It moves doesn't it? The rock. When you kicked it, did it move?

Water, when it drops below freezing does the water experience the temperature drop and freeze?

If the thermostat doesn't experience anything, because it isn't alive, then how is the switch tripped?

know=physical experience of now
physical experience of now=know
the thermostat experiences a temperature change
a switch is tripped, confirming the experience
the thermostat has experienced a now moment
the thermostat has no knowledge
Conclusion, the premise "know=physical experience of now" is false

Thank you Pro for the debate.

Source: My Brain
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
only sensory experience is true
Posted by Harold_Lloyd 2 years ago
Harold_Lloyd
The dilemma is that we cannot experience reality directly, only through sensory inputs and interpretation of those inputs by the brain.

That's why illusions are so fascinating, we know we're having our senses fooled.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
that is what is implied by what you are sayng..

if a thermo stat has experience so does a bike when some one rides it

its just cause and effect, when a water cooker Is at full it starts to squeak, cause and effect
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
No that isn't what I'm saying. I clearly said the thermostat isn't alive. The premise is false. Just let it go.

One last example. A tree is alive. The tree is unaware. The tree has no knowledge. The tree experiences a forest fire. The tree dies. Experience=know, the premise is false my friend.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
the problem with what you saying is everything is alive, and that can not be true, because not everything can die, as a rock is no alive

to be alive is to have the ability of motion, a rock can be in motion, but its not an ability it has
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
for arguments sake I will say its true, now does it counter my position?
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
Oh, almost forgot. The water did experience gravity. It flowed down the drain.
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
vi-spex I think the mistake you are making is that you think one must be aware to experience something. I've demonstrated this not to be true. The switch in the thermostat isn't alive, yet experiences a temperature change, makes a switch. Experience has occurred to a non living thing. Experience doesn't require awareness. The ant is most likely not even aware of it's existence. Probably doesn't have a brain that could comprehend the concept of awareness. Yet the ant has experiences. I think it's time to go back to the drawing board on this line for yourself. No big deal. It's a flawed premise, just let it go.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
because im real and alive
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
I experience graity an heating because im real, if I heat a rock it dosnt die or experience anything, if it can not die, it is not alive

if I cant die, I am already dead, and death cant exist without life
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by BLAHthedebator 2 years ago
BLAHthedebator
vi_spexNoMagicTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I cannot decide. Pro makes a point as to how he has to exist to send the message, but what I am seeing myself may not be real. It applies to everyone. Therefore tie.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
vi_spexNoMagicTied
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Reasons for voting decision: con proves that, with non-sentient objects, the can be physically there without knowing it. Pro Should have worded the resolution more clearly tho.