The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Jjjohn
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

logic is cause and effect

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 353 times Debate No: 89111
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

cause=random+specified
sum of all logic=chaos+order

chaos=random cause+effect
order=specified cause(intent)+effect

poison=unhealthy
logical=dont drink poisonous things to stay healthy
illogical=drink poisonous things to stay healthy

logic is true, logic is absolute, reality is logic
Jjjohn

Con

I accept this debate, although I cannot really tell what pro is arguing in favor of.

Addressing the title of the debate: 'logic is cause and effect'. by logic, I presume he means that in a logical syllogism, the premises are the causes and the conclusion is the effect. while this seems intuitive, I believe it to be a flawed analogy.

Pro has defined cause, but not effect. As such, according to Google, a definition of cause and effect is "the principle of causation.". kinda self-referential, but it also lists causation as "the relationship between cause and effect; causality." causality is defined as "the principle that everything has a cause." now we are getting somewhere.

in order for the statement 'logic is cause and effect' to be true, Pro would have to show how the premises cause the conclusion. this will be difficult in the case where the premises are false and the conclusion is true, or when the premises have nothing to do with the conclusion.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

logic is not reasoning

cause is effect, chicken is egg

i am pro.. you show why i am wrong, con.. or you do not exist in this debate

i am saying.. all cause and effect relations are logic, should be easy to spot an example of this
Jjjohn

Con

since pro has declined to expand on his assertion or refute my interpretation of it, I am forced to continue to use that interpretation.

if logic were cause and effect in the sense that the premises cause the conclusion, then there should be no exceptions to this rule. However, non-sequitur arguments, or arguments with false premises and true conclusions are exceptions. thus, pro's original argument is invalid.

rebuttals:

"logic is not reasoning"

google defines reasoning as "the action of thinking about something in a logical, sensible way.". I fail to see how thinking about something logically is not logic.

" all cause and effect relations are logic"

This statement is the converse of the original title of the debate, thus it has different logical truth values. As such, it cannot be used as evidence to support the original claim.

" you show why I am wrong, con.. or you do not exist in this debate"

Pro seems to be making statements that are demonstrable untrue. This sentence alone proves I exist in this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

logic is true

logic is the opposite of logical and illogical, truth and false

i have no idea what you are talking about dude.. its very simple.. prove cause and effect is not logic
Jjjohn

Con

rebuttal:
"logic is true"

according to the google, which is getting quite a workout, true is "in accordance with fact or reality." Thus there should be no examples which do not correlate to reality. Contradictions do not exist in reality. thus, the logical contradiction of the statement "this statement is a lie" means logic isn't about reality.

"logic has nothing to do with reality" - Ayn Rand.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

sry i cant do this.. same thing over and over, to you fantasy is logic and reality is illogical, i have no need to defend or look like an idiot for explaining that, clearly that is not the case

the cheese moon crust surface vaporizing at my blast waves has nothing to do with logic
Jjjohn

Con

"sry i cant do this.."

As you have failed even to attempt to refute any of my assertions, and along with your statement above, I accept your concession of defeat in this debate. Thank you for the conversation.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

m8 you have to exist in the debate to be con
Jjjohn

Con

Your concession was noted. This post is simply to fill out the space.
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
unintended+intended
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
logic=cause+effect=random+specified=chaos+order=nature+machine

yes
Posted by Jjjohn 8 months ago
Jjjohn
the topic you stated. "logic is cause and effect". are you willing to defend that proposition? if so, you can't keep talking about "cause and effect is logic.".
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
sure
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
what topic
Posted by Jjjohn 8 months ago
Jjjohn
also irrelevant. are you willing to engage on the topic you raised?
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
so you have made a counter in some round?
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
logic is true
Posted by Jjjohn 8 months ago
Jjjohn
You are discussing logic. a statement and its converse have different truth values. they are not the same.

statement: if it is morning, then I am hungry.
converse: if I am hungry, then it is morning.

these do not have the same truth values.

If you want to have another debate on your converse statement, then cool.. But think you should have to defend the proposition you started with in this debate.
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
no difference
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