The Instigator
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1 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
5 Points

malcolmxy is wrong on these points

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,979 times Debate No: 30105
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)




In malcolmxy made these claims:

1. ALL Opiate Agonists metabolize to morphine.
2. Noroxymorphone is basically morphine.
3. Noroxymorphone is super-morphine.
4. "pot" is a slang term for Cannabis and refers to many things, not only the plant itself, but also the THC and cannibasoids contained within said plant.
5. Meth-amphetamine and D-amphetamine are ESSENTIALLY the same drug.

If my opponent accepts, I will prove ALL these points wrong.


What the hell? I accept. Good luck. You didn't say so, but 1st round is usually acceptance only, so I'll hold off on saying anything or making any arguments until next round. If that was a stupid, wasteful move on my part, it certainly wouldn't be the 1st, and I can nearly guarantee it won't be the last.

Debate Round No. 1


1. ALL Opiate Agonists metabolize to morphine.

False. Thebaine does not metabolize to morphine. (1)

2. Noroxymorphone is basically morphine and 3. Noroxymorphone is super-morphine.

Both of these statements are false.
  • Noroxymorphone's affinity for the μ-opioid receptor is almost twice as weak as that of morphine.
  • Noroxymorphone has a bigger problem penetrating the blood-brain-barrier than morphine.
  • Also, the pain-killing properties of morphine are stronger than that of noroxymorphone for every route of administration except when injected into the spinal cord. (2)

4. "Pot" is a slang term for Cannabis and refers to many things, not only the plant itself, but also the THC and cannibasoids (sic) contained within said plant.

False. The definition of 'pot' is Cannabis, according to Google Dictionary. Pot is not defined as THC, tetrahydrocannabinol, or any similar chemicals.

5. Meth-amphetamine and D-amphetamine are ESSENTIALLY the same drug.

  • Methamphetamine is a racemic mixture of two different drugs while dextroamphetamine isn't.
  • Methamphetamine is sold legally as Desoxyn while dextroamphetamine is sold as Dexedrine.
  • Desoxyn is FDA approved to treat exogenous obesity. Dexedrine is FDA approved to treat narcolepsy.
  • Methamphetamine is more neurotoxic than dextroamphetamine. (3)
  • Methamphetamine has a longer duration of effect than dextroamphetamine.

(2) Eija A. Kalso, MD, PhD, et al. Pharmacological Characterization of Noroxymorphone as a New Opioid for Spinal Analgesia. A & A February 2008 vol. 106 no. 2 463-470.


Most cited papers:
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1988 Feb ;85 (4):1267-71 3422490 Cit:62

Transformation of thebaine to oripavine, codeine, and morphine by rat liver, kidney, and brain microsomes.

H Kodaira, S Spector

Roche Institute of Molecular Biology, Roche Research Center, Nutley, NJ 07110.

Thebaine, an intermediate of morphine biosynthesis in the poppy plant, Papaver somniferum, was transformed to oripavine, codeine, and morphine by rat liver, kidney, and brain microsomes in the presence of an NADPH-generating system. The formation of morphine, codeine, and oripavine was identified by a specific RIA, HPLC, and GCMS. Thebaine also gave rise to four other compounds, which for the moment are unidentified. NADH dramatically increased the formation of both codeine and morphine when used together with an NADPH-generating system, especially in liver microsomes. NADPH is essential in the formation of oripavine from thebaine and morphine from codeine, while NADH is critical in the conversion of thebaine to codeine and from oripavine to morphine. Carbon monoxide or SKF 525A inhibited the conversion, indicating a role of cytochrome P-450. These results provide evidence for the enzymatic in vitro conversion by mammalian tissues of thebaine to morphine. The pathway is similar to that which exists in plants.

I win. [1] (species not specified, though they're just now starting to realize, through testing, that thebaine acts the same in humans).

That was fun. Let's do it again sometime.


Debate Round No. 2


No, you didn't provide any evidence that thebaine metabolizes into morphine in humans. In the thread, you were clearly talking about humans, not rats. All of the studies I sourced have human counterparts; e.g. methamphetamine is proved neurotoxic in humans, too, NOT JUST RATS. (1)




Your resolution is unspecific on species. If you wanted this to only be about humans, you should have noted that. (and, the abstract I posted states that it is suggestive of this same metabolization process in ALL mammals, of which humans are one...the testing here is in its infancy because everyone thought this to be untrue, until someone realized it was true).

I said all opiates metabolize to morphine. You stated that Thebaine does not do this. I showed, beyone any doubt, that it does.

Ergo, by YOUR rules and YOUR resolution, I win.

Thanks for the debate. As I said, it was big fun. Have your people call my people. We'll set up another one soon.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by malcolmxy 5 years ago
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 5 years ago
I've made a fool of myself... lol. Vote Con.
Posted by malcolmxy 5 years ago
I sourced it, and I didn't take credit for it as if it were my own writing.

This debate was stupid, so I copied and paste the relevant facts, as they existed in the paper's abstract, and then I properly footnoted and sourced what I used.

That doesn't even come close to fitting the definition of plagiarism.

I think you just mistook *footmouth* for *facepalm*. Try not to get so mixed up next time.
Posted by ProNoob 5 years ago
Yay for plagiarism... *facepalm*
Posted by malcolmxy 5 years ago
And seriously, if anyone wants to give me a hit on the conduct score, please remember that the resolution was that I was wrong, and only that I was wrong.

I could have proven the remainder, overwhelming, in my favor as well, with the exception of the semantics argument over "pot", but I knew about that study and it was the quickest path to ending this, so that's the route I went.

I told the young buck I had already been through this. He should have listened.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ZakYoungTheLibertarian 5 years ago
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: points to pro for admitting he is wrong!