The Instigator
batman
Pro (for)
Losing
30 Points
The Contender
Stoogy
Con (against)
Winning
42 Points

martin luther king jr. was a criminal according to the u.s. government

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,150 times Debate No: 1388
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (24)

 

batman

Pro

he was put in jail for civil disobedience making him a criminal i am not saying he was a bad person but being a criminal makes all of his opinions invalid according to the legal system.
Stoogy

Con

im sorry batman, but i find your notion that "being a criminal makes all of [martin luther king jr.'s] opinions invalid according to the legal system" quite outlandish. if our legal system depised him that much or truely disreguarded his ideas like you uphold, then we wouldnt have a national holiday or streets named after him, he wouldnt be celebrated in our schools and his ideas and legacy taught decades after his death. martin luther king jr. promoted such ideas as equality and justice for all without consideration of ethnicity, social-economical status, and other superficial dividers, and these ideas are definitely not considered "invalid" in our current legal system. and to call martin luther king jr. a "criminal" may not even be necessary correct if you consider the circumstances under which he was incarcerated. "an unjust law is no law at all", and these are the conditions on which mr. king was locked up. the real criminals are the ones who put him in jail just because he dreamed of a better america not just for blacks or whites but for all society.
Debate Round No. 1
batman

Pro

i am not saying he was a bad man but if you look at the legal system we have many flawed things. but we are arguing the laws set in place and if you break them you are there by a criminal.
Stoogy

Con

perhaps technically and within and only within a label is my point. to be a criminal one has to commit a crime, and i was arguing if the crime is criminal itself- unjust- that doesnt make someone a criminal from the perspective of how society, in a larger part, views criminals. so i can give you that, "criminal" in the sense of just breaking a "law". but i still refute being criminal makes all of ones opinions invalid. i would need you to expand on this more. perhap one did do something bad, how could everything they think therefore after have no merit? a good idea is a good idea. the only thing i can think of that is in alignment with that agrument is that someone who commits a felony has their right to vote revolted. but what you said appears pretty broad to me. ;)
Debate Round No. 2
batman

Pro

i am likely to believe that you would not take charles mansons opinions into mind because he is a criminal and he commited crimes based on his beliefs. and you cant use the definition of breaking the law if you are going to say someone should be prosecuted in the act of a felony you are in this debate clinging to and attacking the legal system making all of your arguements invalid.
Stoogy

Con

okay. i understand your 1st argument but i have no idea what you're trying to say in your second one. i never said that someone should be prosecuted in the act of a felony- as far as quotes go. you said the ideas of criminals are invalid, and i said how because that is a broad statement. but felons are not allowed to vote in some states making their election opinions invalid.

i once heard a quote recited by Hitler that went something like its easier to tell people a big lie or people want a big lie...something of this nature and i agree because i believe a big lie leaves more room for change and is easier to manipulate and futhermore, people like a show or something spectacular to believe in. i think it would be illogical for me to dismiss his notion just because of his reputation. i agree or disagree with something based on whether or not i believe it makes sense. i try to look at the ideas objectively.

to further refute your charles manson assumption, people have countless beliefs. couldnt it be possible that i disagreed with the beliefs that charles manson used to justify his crimes and agree with other random beliefs (can we agree that a certain type of food is the best?)

i have never tried to attack the legal system in this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by michael_no_winning 9 years ago
michael_no_winning
hmmm, i dunno...

i mean, batman never really responded to stoogy's argument, should this really be tied? should be a BLOWOUT more like...

anyways, i voted for stoogy! :D

besides, michael cannot win.
Posted by batman_is_dumb 9 years ago
batman_is_dumb
The "criminals' opinions are irrelevant" point in the first speech -- why?? It's pointless and drives away votes (telling people their opinions are irrelevant tends not to go over well, whoever it is targeted towards).
Batman never responded to the attack brought up against him, and so by the rules of debate loses on that point, which invalidates his entire case. Clearly a loss.

Besides that, I'm pretty sure batman is a spammer and so vote against him on principle.
Posted by Stoogy 9 years ago
Stoogy
to u.s. patriot i asked in my argument if someone broke a law that is criminal itself does that make that someone a criminal? criminal has such a negative connotation, i dont think most people would look at mlk jr that way.

and as far as legal system goes, was my opponet referring to the current legal system or the one imposed when mlk jr. was alive?

and furthermore, some people who receieved unfair criminal records during that time period have since had them overturned.
Posted by batman 9 years ago
batman
THAT WAS JUST AN OPPINION THAT WASN'T MEANT TO BE THE TOPIC OF DICUSSION Sieggy.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
"i am not saying he was a bad person but being a criminal makes all of his opinions invalid according to the legal system."

Hmm?
Posted by batman 9 years ago
batman
we were not debating his opinions we were debating whether or not he was a criminal according to the u.s. government.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Pro has a burden of proof to prove that being a criminal makes your opinions and beliefs invalid. I may have just missed when he presented it, but I see it nowhere. I voted con for that reason.
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and all the other "Founding Fathers" were criminals too.

Only problem being that pro provided absolutely no evidence.
Posted by GOOFYTU 9 years ago
GOOFYTU
I think ur all racist [below me]

civil disobedience is nonviolent.

Unless batman can tell me at least 2 situations where MLK broke the law and what law was broken, I only see that he was not a criminal.

MLK is admirable, we all agree upon that, but what you three below are saying is that America is inspired by its criminals.

Since that is what ur saying, give me examples of that. THere is no doubt or cover up for your being prejudice against someone with a different skin color.

I vote con.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
Stoogy, the only reason that man is celebrated in schools is because America gives so many free handouts and praises to every minority group in this country. Also, how was he not a real criminal? He broke the law, and should be deemed a criminal. While some of his views are good and admirable, the fact that he is a lawbreaker, like Batman suggested, should not and cannot be ignored.
24 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by huntertracker6 8 years ago
huntertracker6
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Vote Placed by michael_no_winning 9 years ago
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