The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
teev
Con (against)
Winning
42 Points

minimum wage should exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,853 times Debate No: 938
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (13)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

i am for a minimum wage. i am not arguing a specifc amount, just that it be a reasonable amount a single person can live off of reasonably. we're only debating whether it should exist or not, not how much. i am responding to common objection to the wage from the get go.

anywhere i look anyone can get a job for minimum wage if they have their bits together. the only people i know, from experience only which might not be accurate i concede, who can't get a job at minimum wage are the dim wit slacker type. so, no one is being denied a job because of the wage, really. maybe the low wits are being denied 3.50 jobs, i'm not sure, but i doubt we should worry about that too much.

i say 3.50 jobs, because that's what the wages would go to without the minimum. to prove this, all we need to do is look back to the 80s. back then, the minimum by law was 3.50. and you can bet people were being paid that much at mcdonald's too. what did increasing it do? it simply caused the people who were paid much less than they shold have to be paid more. so, i think the notion is empiraclly proven wrong that economics will cause the wage to increase, if only we'd ban the minimum, because it hangs around at the minimum, stopping it from going lower. if it were still 3.50 today, that's what people would be paid.
and yes, i agree, workers don't stay at exactly 3.50 for long but increase with experience, but they do stay in that low territory for long. so you can't argue it's only temporary.

they can work their way up to better jobs, sometimes but not always. whatever the case, they should get a fairer wage whether temporary or long lasting. most places like mcdonald's and other sterotypical places can afford it, and make enough to pay a fairer wage, so they should. also, i'd be open to allowing categorical exclusions or something for people who pick dandelions for others or somehting. they shouldn't be paid minimum wage. most jobs should though, mcdonald's etc.

if you can't afford to pay a decent wage, you sholdnt be in business. we're always denying someone the opportunity to hire for beans but that doesn't mean we should just ban the minimum wage.

it's like denying indians the right to land: as a practical matter we have to have laws that prevent them from land, but we should recognize how our laws infringe, and act accordingly. with indians, and here. or, imagine a primitive world where a man has all the land taken up by the laws of man, and using technology to claim it like in farming etc: a family wanting to branch off can't because of the law of man, the law of God says they can. it's not stealing, it's fixing the fact the family has the right to take what God has given everyone but laws prevent it and keep things civil. these analogies are happening today, as we prevent people access to the natural world, which is a right. we have to recognize how laws infringe and act accordingly, if not by ging land, then by something else, to be reasonable and not partition everything absurdly.

also, even if some places pay more than minimum doesn't mean we shouldn't have the minimum, as has been suggested. if it's not being used, hten great. if it is, then that's when it matters and the law should exist.

also, i agree a wage increases inflation, but it does not nullify having the wage. peple often argue increasing wage increases price of goods so teh wage increase is canelled out and they are doomed to minimum living. but this is not the case. true inflatino would be if everyone got their wages increased. if just the minimum gets it, inflation would increase, but not wholly, and so the incrase would be much less proportionally ot the increase in minimum.
teev

Con

Why in the world would you be for this? I could go into to so MUCH detail to show you why you are wrong, but I am going to make it simple. Minimum wage is wrong because every owner of a store or shop or restaurant should be able to pay his employees whatever he wants. It is clear that then there would be a competition for who would be able to get employees because he or she would have the best salaries. If everyone had the same there would be no competition for business which would bring nothing to top which would destroy the stock market! Think about that.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

"Why in the world would you be for this? I could go into to so MUCH detail to show you why you are wrong, but I am going to make it simple. Minimum wage is wrong because every owner of a store or shop or restaurant should be able to pay his employees whatever he wants. It is clear that then there would be a competition for who would be able to get employees because he or she would have the best salaries. If everyone had the same there would be no competition for business which would bring nothing to top which would destroy the stock market! Think about that."

One argument I forgot to make. There's an abundance of unskilled labor out there. So much in fact, that empiracally, employers can and do pay employees beans without a minimum. That's exploitation. Imagine a giant owning everything... all he has to do is make the peons fight for peanuts, and that's what happens today effectively. You have no right to take advantage of people, because everyone deserves a minimum if they are working something substantial. Please respond to this by addressing the giant who exploits peons, and the analogies I posted above about equal access to the earth's resources.

I could foresee you arguing that they can move up if they don't want to be paid that amount. As I've argued, some can, others can't. If the job is still worth it by paying a minimum wage that the employer is still willing to do it, it should be paid minimum. It's about fairness with the reasoning above that I asked you to respond to.

Also, I addressed your point about competition. There's no competion amoung employers for people at the minimum wage. In fact, if your argument were true, there'd be no need for the minimum wage. This is empiracally proven false, because the minimum wage exists and is used. They only compete by giving minor increments above the wage as the person progresses in experience.... if they weren't giving minor increases at a mandated level as they are now, they'd be doing it at much lower as they did in the 80s as I showed. It's all minimum wage terrirory, so by setting the wage at a livable level, the terriroy itself would remain livibale. Otherwise you'd have many living perhaps not at minimum exactly, but in minimum territory of an unlivable level.

I don't believe you really read my post, because I addressed all your points, and you ahve not responded to any of the reasoning specifically, but rather simply returned my points with blanket assertions that have already been addressed.
teev

Con

Well you need to face the facts that the percentages would be higher if there was not a minimum wage. Also, you did not address what I said about the stock market because you know that it is true. Sooner or later if there is a bad minimum wage I guarantee there will be no more stock market. Why would you address about the Indians? They have nothing to do with this topic. Your argument is very weak and you need to do some research, but with some practice you could actually do O.K.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

look at minimum wage. it exists now. the stock market is not crumbles. inflation has not gone through the roof or caused bad problems.

i thought that stock market statement wasn't worth dignifying with a response. i'm not even arguing everyone gets the same wages so why did you make that statement?
also, as i said, we're not giving them an excessive minimum or the same as everyone else, but just an amount a single person could live off at the minimum without living on the streets, as i said.

but, i suppose if i look beyond your words I might be able to salvage some reasoning, even though you did not state the reasoning. the argument of inflation. i'll simply refer you to my already stated argument on that matter.
"also, i agree a wage increases inflation, but it does not nullify having the wage. peple often argue increasing wage increases price of goods so teh wage increase is canelled out and they are doomed to minimum living or run amok prices for everyone else. but this is not the case. true inflatino would be if everyone got their wages increased. if just the minimum gets it, inflation would increase, but not wholly, and so the incrase would be much less proportionally ot the increase in minimum."
to explain more, mcdonald's for example would charge more, and their suppliers would charge more and everyone else would too. yes inflation would increase. but, this would not be true inflation where everyone's wages is increased, so the increase in the minimum would be more proporitonally to hte increase in inflation.
teev

Con

Sorry man I couldn't read a lot of your response due to bad spelling, but I think what you were trying to say is that the stock market hasn't crashed? Well, the stock market is dropping along with the minimum wage is staying. If you were smart enough to glance at the statistics before making such a argumentative debate you would have seen that Congress or no one likes the minimum wage. Only small town people like you want it. There is no possible way society could survive by having a constant minimum wage.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by BrianFranklin 9 years ago
BrianFranklin
Are you allowed to post the same topic 10 times?
Are you actually working on a paper about minimum wage?
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 9 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
i didn't misspell anything significantly. that is a cop out to avoid engaging the debate.

i think teev needs to respond with resoning and statistics.

teev says i didn't, but clearly i did have stats that were not addressed.

the stock market falling would only mean it could go down, the minimum.

it's very outlandish, and at least unjustified, how teev would say society is doomed with the minimum wage. i think this person thinks of it in terms of a theory without realizing that it's in fact existant now, the wage. does this person still think the wage will doom us?
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