The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Discipulus_Didicit
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

moronogles

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/27/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 975 times Debate No: 75842
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (31)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

i could be blind in the light believing that i am in the dark, and i could have my ability of sight in the dark believing that i am blind, so a blind man could just claim that he is in the dark and that his eyes work perfectly

to me this explain the phenomena of ray comfort
Discipulus_Didicit

Con

A blind man can test scientifically to know that there is light. One way this is possible is to use a device similar to a light powered calculator that beeps when buttons are pressed. If he hears beeps when he presses the buttons, he knows he is in a room with light.

As for the banana man, he is blind in a dark room and believes there is light, but refuses to press the button to test his beliefs (metaphorically speaking).
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

so its imposible for the beep to be wrong?

testing a belief with a belief proves nothing
Discipulus_Didicit

Con

I have not proposed to test a belief with a belief, I have proposed testing a belief with the scientific method.

Ah, but why trust the scientific method?

Belief=Random=cannot trust.
Random chance < scientific method
Therefore, Scientific method = can trust

In other words, the scientific method has provided predictions in the past. These predictions have matched observations more often than random chance would suggest, so we know from these observations that the scientific method is a useful basis for determining truth.

Observation = Truth = 1. Do you agree?
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

trust is belief, i have no doubt, so there is no good reason to trust or distrust

belief=be lie, as i dont know is true

science is a religion becasue it relys on confirmation from machines, also i can at best believe what others tell me, as i have to imagine it

will be=0
is=1(true)
was=0
Discipulus_Didicit

Con

Trust is belief supported by evidence. Doubt can exist to varying degrees depending on the amount of evidence avaliable.

evidence = knowledge + observation

I dont know is not always true. If you touch a hot cup then you know that cup is hot through observation.

Science has existed long before machines. Science does not rely on confirmation from machines, it relies on confirmation from observation.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

trust is belief, evidence or not

belief is doubt, as i dont know is true. possibility has at least 2 sides

i dont know is true unless i know, beyond what i know is what i dont know

i can at best believe what others tell me. using machines to observe, or like when the astronomer hears my Words he is quick to reach for his telescope, like the preacher with his bible
Discipulus_Didicit

Con

Possibility has at least two sides, yes. We can hypothesize (not predict) which side is true. Then tests and observation of results tells us if the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. That is how the scientific method works.

If you touch a hot cup then you know the cup is hot (observation) If you know the cup is hot then I don't know if the cup is hot is false. Observation makes I don't know false for whatever you observe.

You can believe more than what others tell you. If you see a yellow banana you believe it is yellow without anyone telling you. Your reason for believing this is that you see it (observation).

If the astronomers observations are consistent then the scientific method can be applied as described above.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

no you dont understand, because possibility has 2 sides, its false by default, reality is not possible, reality is absolute

those tests and observations are done by others, i can at best believe what others tell me, as i have to imagine it

belief=be lie, as i dont know is true(theism)
kNow=Physical experience

i dont know=i can at best imagine it

and the astronomer still relys on machines, still religion
Discipulus_Didicit

Con

If reality is absolute then al least one side of any possibility is absolute truth, so not the entire possibility is false.

"Those tests and observations are done by others"

This is sometimes, but not always, true. When it is true you can repeat these tests yourself. For example, if I say that touching boiling water causes burns I can test this by heating water until it begins to boil, touching it, observing whether I am burned as a result, and making a prediction based on these observations. . On your end, if you do not believe I really did this test or you believe that I lied about the results then you can repeat the test for yourself (I highly suggest you don't). If you get the same results you know my conclusion was valid.

Belief = possibility = testable
Observation = Physical experience
Debate Round No. 5
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
thanks :))
Posted by m8 1 year ago
m8
Also, congratulations to vi_spex for being the first person to type 'moronogles'. https://www.google.com...
Posted by m8 1 year ago
m8
Meanwhile on DDO, Discipulus_Didicit becomes a disciple of vi_spex, as once I did.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
np man, bye
Posted by Discipulus_Didicit 1 year ago
Discipulus_Didicit
Unfortunately I do not have the time to spare in continuing this conversation, it has been quite thought provoking, if not altogether enlightening. I look forward to having such a discussion again sometime.

Goodbye for now vi_spex.

Mundi magister meus est
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
knowledge is memory of know, know=now

life is, not was or will be
Posted by Discipulus_Didicit 1 year ago
Discipulus_Didicit
But you were in the past already. You traveled to the present and brought with you your memories.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
belief=future=false
kNow=now=true
knowledge=past=truth

i cant go back in the past
Posted by Discipulus_Didicit 1 year ago
Discipulus_Didicit
Only the present can be observed now, but past is still true becausr it was observed before. These observations become memories and can be tested just the same as anything else.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
when i am alone, the true size of the human population is 1
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