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The Contender
Con (against)
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movie versus debate opponent choses

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 706 times Debate No: 68301
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)




Hello everyone this will be the second of my opponent choes the debate debates. In this debate I challenge ZenoCitium to a which movie is better debate in which he will pick two movies in round 1 and we will have a debate about which is better.
1. The movies have to be of similar or equal quality.
2. As con gets to pick the two films I get to pick which of the two I think is better.
3. This debate will obviously include some form of opinion, so the argument that since it's an opinion it shouldn't be considered a point is banned from this debate.
4.seeing as last time was a flop because of me not seeing the films they have to have been releases any time from 1980 to 2015, and must have been nominated for an oscar or golden globe.


Film #1: Francis Ford Coppola's "Apocalypse Now"

Film #2: Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket"

Film #1's release date is 1 yr shy of 1980 but this was oked by Pro in PM.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1


OK so for the voters round 2 will be me and my opponent type a list of points as to why the movie we are debating for is better.
I would first like to thank my opponent for picking two great movies it should be a great debate.
I choose the movie full metal jacket as the film I will debate is better.
Some of my points include.
1. It is in my opinion more fun to watch
2. It is easier to watch
3 the acting is better
4 one performance in particular is extremely iconic
5. Apocalypse now is in my opinion an extreme bore to watch in one session
6 Kubrick masterpiece


Thanks for opening this debate, Pro.

Although they have both become epic war movies, I will demonstrate that "Apocalypse Now" (denoted AN) is clearly a better movie than "Full Metal Jacket" (denoted FMJ) by providing the following evidence in Round 3:

1. AN received better reviews from movie critics.
2. AN had better sound, cinematography and better acting.
3. Unlike other Vietnam movies, AN uses surrealistic cinematic sequences so that the viewer FEELS rather than sees the chaos and horrors of war.
Debate Round No. 2


djones16 forfeited this round.


"Apocalypse Now" (AN)
"Full Metal Jacket" (FMJ).

To consider which movie is better, we must first provide our method of evaluation. What makes a movie good to watch? My premise is that movies can be best compared in the following areas:


These are the main merit categories in which movies are judged by the film industries" two main award ceremonies honoring cinematic achievements. [1][2]

In addition to this, I believe we can add a special merit category since we are comparing two Vietnam War movies: Capturing the Essence of the Vietnam War. This is important because film is one of our culture"s great methods of storytelling and it is crucial to express not only the facts and history of events but the atmosphere and emotions.

Of these categories, AN will be shown to be superior in four with a undecided verdict in the fifth.

I don"t believe there is a clear victory for either movie in terms of screenplay. Both were very well written and received nominations from the Academy Awards ceremony in their respective years.

AN was by far superior than FMJ when it came to sound and score. All-in-all, AN was nominated for (5) major awards for sound. Of these (5), the movie won an Academy Award for best sound and a Golden Globe for best original score. [3] In comparison, FMJ only received a nomination for a BAFTA award for best sound. [4]
An example of great movie sound came in the Ride of the Valkyries scene when the helicopter raid destroys a peaceful town. This scene was chosen as the most memorable movie scene ever by Empire Magazine [3] The sound highlights the disparity between the chaos of the incoming war party and the peace of the quiet village.

AN was also superior with respect to acting. All-in-all, AN was nominated for (7) major awards for acting including an Academy Award. Frederic Forrest won a National Society of Film Critics Award for his role as Jay "Chef" Hicks. Robert Duvall won an American Movie Award, a British Film Academy Award, and a Golden Globe for his role as Lieutenant Colonel William Kilgore. His character uttered the 12th highest rated movie quotes according to the American Film Institute with the words, "I love the smell of napalm in the morning". [5] His emptiness is startling. A surfing fanatic, he attacks only to liberate a beach said to have great waves. "Charlie don't surf". In comparison, FMJ received only one nomination, in which R. Lee Ermey managed to win a best supporting actor award by the Boston Society of Film Critics Awards. While FMJ offered very few, if any, major actors. AN was filled with some of acting"s greats, including the following:

-Martin Sheen
-Marlon Brando
-Robert Duvall
-Laurence Fishburne
-Dennis Hopper
-Harrison Ford
-Scott Glenn
-and yes R. Lee Ermey was in this film ALSO

AN was also superior in the category of cinematography. All-in-all, AN was nominated for (2) major awards. Of these nominations, AN went on to win an Academy Award for cinematography. In comparison, FMJ did not receive any nominations for it's cinematography.

One great cinematography choice was the pulsing light from flares in the Do Lung Bridge scene. Adding to the sense of chaos and the unknown.

The movie's use of low-ley lighting is amazing and adds to the overall feeling and symbolism of the movie. Marlon's character appears and his monologue begins. At first he is obscured completely in darkness then only the left side of his face becomes partially visible. His character having embraced the horrors of war he has become mad, he was at home in the darkness and almost completely consumed by it.

Essence of the Vietnam War
It is important that a Vietnam War movie portray the spirit and the atmosphere of the Vietnam War. Although FMJ is considered one of the most historically accurate Vietnam War films [6], arguably no film exposes the raw emotions of that war greater than AN. This was the chief ambition of director Francis Ford Coppola, who once remarked, "My film is not about Vietnam, it is Vietnam." Did he accomplish his objective? To quote the great movie critic Robert Ebert, "Other important films such as "Platoon," "The Deer Hunter," "Full Metal Jacket" and "Casualties of War" take their own approaches to Vietnam." "But "Apocalypse Now" is the best Vietnam film, one of the greatest of all films, because it pushes beyond the others, into the dark places of the soul. It is not about war so much as about how war reveals truths we would be happy never to discover." [7]

As a Total Picture
In entirety, however, a movie needs not only to have great sound, superb acting, and awe inspiring cinematography. All these talents have to come together perfectly; each augmenting the other. AN was nominated for an Acadamy Award for best picture, considered the most important Academy Award [8]. In addition, the film was nominated for a British Academy Film Award, a Cesar Award, and a Golden Globe for best picture or film. [3] It received the Palme d"Or, the highest prize awarded at the Cannes Film Festival. In comparison, FMJ only received a nomination for best foreign film from the Japanese Academy.
As a picture, AN was highly critically acclaimed. As Robert Ebert stated, "One of the greatest". Here is a full comparison:
American Film Institute"s Top 100 Movies: AN #28, FMJ no votes [9]
Rotten Tomatoes: AN 98%, FMJ 94% [10]
IMBD: AN #47, FMJ #86 [11]

"Apocalypse Now" has been heralded as one of the greatest films by film critics and academies alike. It"s been placed ahead of "Full Metal Jacket" in every major category and by every major film critic. "Full Metal Jacket" is a great movie, and it deserves to be on every "must see" list. However, it doesn"t immerse your sensory perception with the disorder and despair, chaos and craziness of the Vietnam War like "Apocalypse Now". It blends both light and sound together for a picture that pushes us "into the dark places of [our] soul".

Debate Round No. 3


djones16 forfeited this round.


Unfortunately, my opponent has completely forfeited. Con has not presented an argument or a rebuttal. Therefore I have nothing to rebut myself this round and I urge the voters to votes Pro. Thanks.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by ZenoCitium 3 years ago
No problem. It happens. Give it your best and good luck.
Posted by djones16 3 years ago
Sorry for n9t replying to this debate this week has been very busy for me unfortunatly I don't think I can finish this debate but I will try
Posted by ZenoCitium 3 years ago
djones16: I'd be fine if you posted your arguments for Round 3 in the comments section. However, you'll have to do so before Round 4 starts as that would prevent a rebuttal for us both.
Posted by ZenoCitium 3 years ago
Yes, though I considered other Vietnam movies as well. These two, I think, are the most comparable. Other good films: Deer Hunter and Platoon.
Posted by djones16 3 years ago
Damn two great movies which 1 should I pick hmmmmm
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture