The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
GoOrDin
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

muslims believe enough about Jesus 2 be saved by christianity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
GoOrDin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/8/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 409 times Debate No: 62914
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity

they believe he was born of a virgin, died and was raised up to God. they believe he performed miracles.

=====================

here is a debate where i say the required threshhold of faith to be saved as chistians is not clear. but we often say there has to be a 'holistic' approach, which could be said to save muslims. unless you go without reason to require things like "jesus is my savior" as a required tenant.

the requirements are either too vague, or too listy/dogmatic.

the bible says if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord, and beleive in your heart that he was raised from the dead you will be saved. it also say if you believe in the lord you will be saved. it also has all kinds of other statements.
i'm sure if you do these, that is sufficient. but what about various other scenarios, like the content of 'sinner's prayers' that dont include those things?

what or where exactly is the threshhold?

if you believe he existed or is God is that enough? probably not cause the bible says demons do likewise.

what about a list of of common beleifs? that you rely on him generally, that he is your savior, that you are a sinner, that he is lord, tha he rose from the dead, that he was incarnated, that he is God, that he is the son of God, that you believe you are saved (plenty of christians say you must believe you are saved, or you aren't saved), substitutionary atonement v 'christus victor' etc etc.

ask different christians, get a different answer, almost every time. they just have 'gut feelings' but dont have firm answers. see past debates from me on this topic, and you'll note a different answer pretty much every time.

some say you have to admit you're a sinner and that he is your savior. what if you believed all the other things and not these? or what if you believe you're a sinner, and that he's a savior, but not that he's God, or a various type of atonement belief. eg, chrsitaus victor v substitutionary.
some say that he is God is required, some say legal substitution is mandatory.

and how do you demarcate the requirements for those who are new to the faith, and those who are really knowledgeable? it might be seen a okay for a newbie to miss a thing or two, but less understandable for the expreinced etc. does this come into play?

so what's the magical formula?
GoOrDin

Con

The Magical Formula:

The answer tot he debate question is no. "Muslims" do believe enough in Jesus to be saved.

This is not to say, and I am not arguing that, Muslims cannot or will not, have not been saved.

I am saying that as a Muslim, their faith in The the Saintly Figure Jesus will not be their salvation by any means. And that they will be humbled.

**
A man is saved when accepts the message of God.
**
Thus, a man is saved when he received Jesus, because he is such a message. He is the Wisdom of God itself.
**

A Muslim is entirely capable of being completely disregarded by God,

such as, a Muslim that marries a child but says to himself, "My God is not a God who loves chastity, and I am married so I may go into this girl now while she is young, Or if not, I will take her for myself because it is what III desire! and the will of my wife is subject to my own!"
that is blasphemy and this Muslim believes nothing of Jesus and should and will likely be punished.

Likewise, this example is very easy to interpret and believe, but many examples exist.

And by disbelieving in God's true message and being a blasphemous shrew, any Muslim can be said to not even be ISLAMIC! So. truly.
I lose this debate. For a true Muslim is a Christian,
but being Muslim as what has been accepted as Muslim grants no man salvation or protection. For he is as a pagan who follows blindly a false religion.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

"I lose this debate. For a true Muslim is a Christian,"

con forfeits
GoOrDin

Con

In regards, that we agree a Muslim is not a Muslim because he or another human being claims it is so, or because he believes that the Quran or any other holy scriptures are real, But instead his Islamic Faith is determined by his true Faith in God All-mighty.

Then Yes, I forfeit.

However.

Jesus Christ who is saintly in person, Is the Son of God, the Light of the World, the Wisdom of God, and thus
only through believing in him can you worship, acknowledge or be saved by God.

(* this does not change any prayer or religion or person, this is how reality has always been manifested, and in this way, Things have been made clear. *)

"What Muslim can one point out to me? What Christian have I seen!? Show me a man who is not Pagan saying, God is many, the God of Christians and the God of Jews and the God of Muslims!!! For truly I see no wisdom in man!" ~ Gord
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

"Then Yes, I forfeit."

con again forfeits.

might i add, jesus was thought to be a messiah, they believe he was born of a virgin, died and was raised up to God. they believe he performed miracles.
GoOrDin

Con

Claiming to be Muslim does not make one Muslim.
Thinking one is Muslim does not make one Muslim.

A Muslim believes the true message of God which he speaks to one in secret and in the open places.
as Abraham did not have neither The Light nor the Book, he is still regarded as Muslim not because he believed the same things as Muslims, but because he Believed in the truth!

and so. Because a Muslim cannot be a Muslim unless he accepts Jesus, who is the Light of the World, First son of God, and Wisdom of the Cosmos,
Dairygirl4us2c
Wins this debate, despite her lack of conduct.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
My first comment int his section was meant to summarize the last sentence of my last argument. It is not an intended rebuttal.

I was just suggesting, that it was the debate itself that was won by nature in her favor**
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
I know. It is a ridiculous reason to not have Faith in Jesus.

however. All voting should be non-biased in a debate forum...

however, my thanks goes out to Dairygirl4me2c for giving me this opportunity.

It can be difficult to explain lack of faith to a many Muslims; it is typical for them to reference other religions under false pretense, or judge the God of religions for the actions of false worshipers. { which is absurd because those claims are irrelevant** and this could not be applied to a truly Islamic individual. *
Posted by The-Holy-Macrel 2 years ago
The-Holy-Macrel
The reason they don't belive in jesus is because they think that would mean that... Yeah you know.
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
lack of conduct, & lack of content in support of her debate*
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by NathanDuclos 2 years ago
NathanDuclos
dairygirl4u2cGoOrDinTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Dairygirl4u2c didn't make an arugment, she just restated oppinions in different ways.
Vote Placed by The-Holy-Macrel 2 years ago
The-Holy-Macrel
dairygirl4u2cGoOrDinTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I feel like it.