The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Bible2000
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Bible2000
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/8/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 588 times Debate No: 62913
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (5)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity

they believe he was born of a virgin, died and was raised up to God. they believe he performed miracles.

=====================

here is a debate where i say the required threshhold of faith to be saved as chistians is not clear. but we often say there has to be a 'holistic' approach, which could be said to save muslims. unless you go without reason to require things like "jesus is my savior" as a required tenant.

the requirements are either too vague, or too listy/dogmatic.

the bible says if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord, and beleive in your heart that he was raised from the dead you will be saved. it also say if you believe in the lord you will be saved. it also has all kinds of other statements.
i'm sure if you do these, that is sufficient. but what about various other scenarios, like the content of 'sinner's prayers' that dont include those things?

what or where exactly is the threshhold?

if you believe he existed or is God is that enough? probably not cause the bible says demons do likewise.

what about a list of of common beleifs? that you rely on him generally, that he is your savior, that you are a sinner, that he is lord, tha he rose from the dead, that he was incarnated, that he is God, that he is the son of God, that you believe you are saved (plenty of christians say you must believe you are saved, or you aren't saved), substitutionary atonement v 'christus victor' etc etc.

ask different christians, get a different answer, almost every time. they just have 'gut feelings' but dont have firm answers. see past debates from me on this topic, and you'll note a different answer pretty much every time.

some say you have to admit you're a sinner and that he is your savior. what if you believed all the other things and not these? or what if you believe you're a sinner, and that he's a savior, but not that he's God, or a various type of atonement belief. eg, chrsitaus victor v substitutionary.
some say that he is God is required, some say legal substitution is mandatory.

and how do you demarcate the requirements for those who are new to the faith, and those who are really knowledgeable? it might be seen a okay for a newbie to miss a thing or two, but less understandable for the expreinced etc. does this come into play?

so what's the magical formula?
Bible2000

Con

Matthew 24:13 - But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

John 3:16 - For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

John 3:36 -
The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

What must we do to be saved?

John 3:16 says that everyone who has faith in Jesus will have everlasting life. But what does having faith in Jesus mean? John 3:36 adds that those who have faith will have everlasting life, but those who disobey the Son will not see life. So having faith involves obedience.

Again, Matthew 24:13 says the one who endures to the end will be saved. To the end doing what? To the end doing the will of their Father in heaven, according to Matthew 7:21. Those who say "Lord, Lord" obviously believe in Jesus. However, if they don't show they have true faith through their obedience, they will not benefit from the gift of salvation.

Do Muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved? I'll answer that with another question. The Demons know more about Jesus than the Muslims themselves. Are the demons saved? How can the Muslims be saved if they reject God's word the Bible and follow a book with many flaws written hundreds of years after Jesus died?

Thank you. I eagerly await Pro's response.


Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

con says a person is saved by enduring till the end, and believing the bible is the word of God.

but we see many who believe a simpler formula and are saved. those who 'endure to the end' as con posits, encompass some who don't ebleieve the bible and who don't fully obey. muslims obey many rules of christianity and they endure to the end.

we can't take a set stone to what the requirements are to be saved, cause there's always someone else who wouldn't necessarily make the cut with that, but are saved. when we look at things holistically, we see that perhaps muslims should be included.
muslims believed Jesus was the messiah, and had a special place in salvation history. they believe he rose from the dead.

"those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead, will be saved". so they probably fulfill this requirement too.
Bible2000

Con

Pro seems to think there are different "formulas" in the Bible to be saved. But really, there is only one.

Ephesians 2:8, 9 says: “By grace [or undeserved kindness] you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast.”

However, Hebrews 5:9 says: " “He [Jesus] became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.”

Do these statements conflict? Not at all. Obedience simply demonstrates one's faith is genuine.

James 2:14, 26 - “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.”

One does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone with genuine faith will have works to go with it, works of obedience to the commands of Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ.

Acts 16:30, 31 - “‘Men, what must I do to be saved?’ And they [Paul and Silas] said, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’”

If that man and his household truly believed, would they not act in harmony with their belief? Yes, they would.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As you can see, there are no multiple formulas. Faith without works is dead like a body apart from the spirit. To conclude, let's consider John 17:3.

John 17:3 - This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Can it really be said that Muslims have come to known Jesus Christ if they reject that he was the Son of God and that he died for our sins? No. They can not receive salvation if they reject such essential truths.


Thank you. I once again await Pro's response.


Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

"those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead, will be saved". so they probably fulfill this requirement too.

con inserts more to the word of God. the muslims believe enough. con adds 'son of God' and 'died for our sins'. it's notable, con didn't even mention these in his first post. they are so central yet weren't even mentioned. con is all over the place. we have to go back ot the basics, and a holistic approach. (though i guess i admit a holistic approach doesn't really necessarily mean they are saved, i might concede really but i will just let it go with this)
Bible2000

Con

"'those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead, will be saved'. so they probably fulfill this requirement too."

Muslims don't believe Jesus was raised from the dead. They don't fulfill this requirement, so they are not saved.

"Muslims believe he [Jesus] was raised to Heaven without being put on the cross and God transformed another person to appear exactly likeJesus who was crucified instead of Jesus."

http://en.wikipedia.org...'_death


Pro fails to meet the burden of proof that Muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved. We see the Bible teaches believing is not enough; even the demons believe. And Muslims don't even believe Jesus was raised from the dead, which is one of Pro's argument. For these reasons, I urge the voters to vote Con. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
Con presented no information and demonstrated a clack of knowledge about Christianity.

Pro demonstrated a lack of knowledge of Islam. Jesus is not regarded as being risen from the dead in the islamic religion** that is false information.

Summary:

neither contributor to this debate is qualified to engage in it.
This is, "Using the Lord's name in vain." the second commandment of the Judaic law.
** making atheists believe religion is stupid and irrelevant. **
Posted by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. Sura 5:72

The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. Sura 5:75

These are verses from the Koran and totally contradict the Bible. So I am not sure where you got your false information
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
Most Christians would tell you in order to get to Heaven, belief that Jesus Christ was the Savior who was triumphant over sin and death.

*Lived a perfect life, died for our sins, rose from the dead.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by djdipretoro 2 years ago
djdipretoro
dairygirl4u2cBible2000Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had arguments that made sense. Pro seemed to be arguing from an emotional response to the exclusivity of Christ.
Vote Placed by mishapqueen 2 years ago
mishapqueen
dairygirl4u2cBible2000Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro just had one verse that she brought up multiple times, and provided very little argumentation. She never really upheld her BoP or answered Con's points. Con answered all her arguments adequately, and used multiple sources to hold up his points.
Vote Placed by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
dairygirl4u2cBible2000Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con definitely won the debate and had more convincing arguments.
Vote Placed by 1Credo 2 years ago
1Credo
dairygirl4u2cBible2000Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con made far more convincing arguments to support their position and had better grammar.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
dairygirl4u2cBible2000Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: A quite interesting debate. In the end, Pro raised some good questions but didn't prove the motion, particularly in light of the fact that Con showed that muslims don't believe in the resurrection. Pro would have done better to tie salvation directly into some more specific quotes that could be interpreted as allowing muslims. I would have liked to see this debate as a longer one, actually, I did find it an interesting concept. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.