The Instigator
linate
Pro (for)
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The Contender
CountCheechula
Con (against)
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muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/18/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 348 times Debate No: 63452
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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linate

Pro

muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity

they believe he was a messiah, born of a virgin, some believe he died and all believe he was raised up to God. they believe he performed miracles, they beiieve he will come again.

=====================

here is a debate where i say the required threshhold of faith to be saved as chistians is not clear. but we often say there has to be a 'holistic' approach, which could be said to save muslims. unless you go without reason to require things like "jesus is my savior" as a required tenant.

the requirements are either too vague, or too listy/dogmatic.

the bible says if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord, and beleive in your heart that he was raised from the dead you will be saved. it also say if you believe in the lord you will be saved. it also has all kinds of other statements.
i'm sure if you do these, that is sufficient. but what about various other scenarios, like the content of 'sinner's prayers' that dont include those things?

what or where exactly is the threshhold?

if you believe he existed or is God is that enough? probably not cause the bible says demons do likewise.

what about a list of of common beleifs? that you rely on him generally, that he is your savior, that you are a sinner, that he is lord, tha he rose from the dead, that he was incarnated, that he is God, that he is the son of God, that you believe you are saved (plenty of christians say you must believe you are saved, or you aren't saved), substitutionary atonement v 'christus victor' etc etc.

ask different christians, get a different answer, almost every time. they just have 'gut feelings' but dont have firm answers. see past debates from me on this topic, and you'll note a different answer pretty much every time.

some say you have to admit you're a sinner and that he is your savior. what if you believed all the other things and not these? or what if you believe you're a sinner, and that he's a savior, but not that he's God, or a various type of atonement belief. eg, chrsitaus victor v substitutionary.
some say that he is God is required, some say legal substitution is mandatory.

and how do you demarcate the requirements for those who are new to the faith, and those who are really knowledgeable? it might be seen a okay for a newbie to miss a thing or two, but less understandable for the expreinced etc. does this come into play?

so what's the magical formula?
CountCheechula

Con

Required Tenants to be saved according to the Christian:
You first must admit that the love and mercy from God is more than we deserve and greater than we can imagine.
You must then admit you are a sinner and a follower of Adam and Eve's mistake.
Accept and acknowledge that Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit.
He was sinless through His entire life and never lost approval from His Father.
Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan by John the Baptist, suffered 40 days in the Arabian Dessert tempted by Satan but eventually crushed the serpent.
Jesus performed miracles, healed many and provided the greatest wisdom to mankind ever.
Was wrongly beaten, killed and suffered for all of our sins under the ruling of the Jews.
Spent three days in Hell for our sins to rise again walk on this Earth for forty days then to ascend to Heaven where He sits of the right hand of the Father until it is time to come back and rapture the true believers.
Jesus is the one true son of the one and only living God.
You must be saved and have companionship with the Holy Spirit which lives in all Christians that tells us when we do wrong and keep on the right path to righteousness.

Why Muslims do not qualify:
They believe the only recognized entity to be worship or acknowledge is Allah and only Allah.
Jesus was merely one the five prophets of Islam.
Jesus was taking by Allah before he was crucified.(Even Atheists believe Jesus was crucified because there are official Roman and Jewish records proving this)
Muslims consider Christians polytheistic because we believe in the Holy Trinity.
Muslims also believe when you die you will be asked Who is your God? And who is his prophet?
If the the answer is not Allah and Muhammad then you are not in good shape.
Muslims believe in the crusader ship to establish a caliphate to correctly worship Allah.
They also believe that Muhammad is the last messenger of God which if you ask and any Christian they would tell you he was false prophet the eluded many. If Christianity is the true faith my God would agree.

Magic formula:
Love God with all your heart, body, mind, and soul. Love your neighbor like yourself. Spread the Gospel at all costs.
Debate Round No. 1
linate

Pro

according to con's last magic formula, they could be said to be saved. they loved god and others, and spread the good news as they see it, which includes many teachings of Jesus.

con gave one of the longest laundry lists of any one ive seen about what one has to do to be saved. the bible makes it much easier "whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved" "if you confess with your lips that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that he was raised up you will be saved". it even has verses like "if you persevere till the end you will be saved" and things like loving others.
muslims fulfill most of these easier criteria. therefore, according to christianity, they can be saved through it.
CountCheechula

Con

Muslims do not believe Jesus Christ was the messiah, Muhammad is their main prophet and they believe he was the last messenger. Wrong! According to the teachings of Jesus, no more prophets shall come after me, and several references as such beware of false prophets. Muhammad is directly related to Abraham because he is an offshoot of Ishmael. The wedlock child born of a whore. Cast to dessert to create most of the once multiple extreme pagan/sexualistic religions of the Arabian peninsula. God told Abraham He would take the holy line through Isaac. Muhammad was a false, murderous, polygamy, slave inducer, evil man that claims having virgins for eternity is a good thing.
Jesus is one of the five prophets of Islam but He drank wine?
They believe Jesus escaped death but that is the only thing the most skeptical Atheists and crazed Evangelicals agree on.
Muhammad has caused many to stray away and create chaos, through high taxes of non-believers and slaughter of those who refuse is not a loving God. A god that says you will cast Jews and Christians into hell personal to save yourself is not a loving merciful God. Muhammad was a sinner, evil man that has manipulated many and caused millions possibly billions of deaths.

"muslims believe enough about Jesus to be saved by christianity"

No, they do not believe is the one and true messiah that will come again to establish a New Heaven and New Earth along with a New Jerusalem.
Debate Round No. 2
linate

Pro

all i can do is reassert they believe enough. con disagrees. at least he's not sticking to his long laundry list of things to beleive but has moved on from that to rant about other things
CountCheechula

Con

The same still applies. Only Christians go to heaven, not even all Christians go. Muslims do not fit any criteria.
"The only way to Heaven is through me." - Jesus Christ
Muslims do not go through Him they go through Muhammad's teachings and the full 100% worship to none other but Allah.
They do not posses the Holy Spirit and will not be saved.
"If you are not for me you are against me." - Jesus Christ
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by CountCheechula 2 years ago
CountCheechula
I would love to accept this debate. I am a Christian and would be willing to establish all discourses in the 1st round.
No votes have been placed for this debate.