The Instigator
lindsay
Pro (for)
Losing
49 Points
The Contender
Smashlove
Con (against)
Winning
63 Points

national health care

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Started: 12/8/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,935 times Debate No: 170
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (19)
Votes (36)

 

lindsay

Pro

I am curious why anybody would oppose national health care.

As a nursing student, I am in the hospital on a routine basis, and have a really difficult time knowing the financial debt that people have to deal with once they get discharged. What's worse is when people get turned away due to a lack of sufficient insurance. Why would any person oppose the idea of national health care, especially since we are the only industrialized nation that does not offer this to our citizens? All of the other countries who DO have socialized medicine have been successful with the implementation of the program. What is holding us back? 68% of people filing for bankruptcy due to medical expenses HAVE insurance. Even the middle-class Americans are having financial difficulty! Wake up, America, and support a candidate who WILL give us national health care!
Smashlove

Con

Why would anyone oppose national health care? It all comes down to taxation. The United States' current fiscal policy is broken up in a pie chart method. The major areas are: education, military, and social security, plus numerous other social reform programs. To really believe a current candidate can bring you a health care plan that will justly help all Americans is unattainable. We need to first look at, is health care a privilege or entitlement/ right? We have billion dollar health care insurance agencies who have themselves situated right in the government's pocket. Health care is a service. It is a marketable entity, and it not a right. What happens to other universal health systems globally? They experience a lack in medical equipment advances- we evolve because extensive monies fund new technology. New technology leads to new cures, and furthered human longevity. Canadians comes over the border just to get an MRI in a timely fashion. Universal health care= consumers being treated all equally. There is no triage. You wait. Who is going to pay for this? Other nations pay further taxes than we currently do. If America is taxed further, then the economy will not continue to grow. We will become stagnant. Health care is a privilege. Social Security needs to be on the forefront, more than any other issue. That system is on the verge of going bankrupt in a decade- and we need to protect our older generations.

Supplemental health care assistance makes more sense.We have too many illegals entering our country yearly, that our helping feed into the chaos. Something has to give before health care because a higher priority.
These are not easy issues.
Debate Round No. 1
lindsay

Pro

I appreciate the response, Smashlove. I do disagree, however, with health care being a privilege.

How can education be a right, and health care be a privilege? With "No Child Left Behind" George W. Bush made education a right for every American. But in the big scheme of things, which is more important-educational competency or staying alive and functioning without illness?

The obvious answer is that health care is far more important than even education. Now, I'm not arguing that education is not important. It is imperative to developing our nation. However, health care MUST be a top priority on the upcoming candidate's platform.

Also, it is not true that "Canadians come over the border to get an MRI in a timely fashion." I'm sure that some have. However, the FACTS (not "rumors") are that a higher percentage of people are satisfied with the health care they have received in OTHER countries (industrialized) than in THIS country.

Perhaps if we weren't in a major deficit right now, socialized health care would be attainable. Instead of keeping this nation's citizens alive, congress has approved spending of over $699 billion dollars for fighting this war on terror. Granted, that money is spent and gone, but if we get the troops home in a timely manner, and spend money on the citizens that are dying HERE on our soil, instead of paying money to kill other people on THEIR soil, health care is an attainable goal.

I think the only reason people oppose the notion is because they don't believe it. It's not too good to be true, it works in other nations, and it can work here. YES, taxes will go up. But why did we have a tax cut during war anyway?? That was the only time in US history that we got a tax CUT during a war. I am prepared and more than willing to pay more in taxes if it means a free doctor visit whenever I'm ill, and affordable medicine.

The insurance and pharmaceutical industries are both fraudulent, and don't deserve our money any longer. I would prefer LESS money go into the government and in the end, help me when I'm sick, than MORE of my money go to white-collared criminals who take advantage of our nation.

I know that sounds extreme, but it is true. Why should we pay up to $400 for certain precriptions that can be attained for $10 in other countries? Because that $390 difference goes into the elite pockets of the pharm. industries.

Quick example that many might be unaware of--

Rick Perry, Republican Governor of Texas, had his campaign funded for primarily by the pharmaceutical company Merck.

Shortly after being elected governor, Perry made the "Gardasil" vaccine mandatory for all 6th grade girls.

Gardasil is the HPV preventive vaccine that Merck created. It costs $200 per shot, and 3 shots are required to be immune to the virus. That is $600/girl.

So basically, "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" philosophy applied. Merck paid to have Perry elected, then Perry makes their vaccine mandatory, and Merck brings in some serious money.

This was wrong on a lot of levels, but I do realize it wasn't my initial point. In conclusion, I am prepared to pay more taxes for better healthcare, because it shouldn't be a privilege, it really should be a right.

If you're willing to socialize education, why not medicine? Your taxes already go toward school....which is more important-reading a book, or living to see tomorrow?
Smashlove

Con

It is nice that you are willing to pay more taxes to receive free health care. I, on the other hand do not see the need for more taxation than there currently is. I am not even going to bother bringing the War into this matter. Freedom is not free. Our lives are dependent first, and foremost, by living in a free nation.
Health care is a large big business infrastructure. It isn't acceptable to make fleeting statements about pharmaceutical companies who do make a huge difference in the creation of vaccines and palliative care. We need the pharmaceutical companies too. They create jobs for Americans. They are doing the necessary research to come up with answers. Having health care in a free format is the only way to increase research, invention, and future endeavors.

Also, More taxation means that you will also be paying for those who do not contribute to our free market as well. For example, legal immigrants- there needs to be reforms for the health care system to receive what it needs. Many of the health conditions are out there due to Americans not taking care of their health. Obesity and many other gluttonous vices play a role in the overpopulated hospitals. We need to start looking more for preventative measures to lessen hospital needs. The elderly are the American's eating up our insurance dollars by constant checkups. We have supplements out there currently. Laws need to be created to urge companies to supplement health care insurance for their workers.

Attacking the homeland security measures is not the answer. Hillary Clinton is out there trying to set up a universal system, however she is not developing anything concrete that will make our economy transition nicely.

Smearing the pharmaceutical companies and government sectors will not lead to a solution. It is about starting with baby steps, rather than a outright revolution.

We had a tax cut that served the public in a beneficial way. We have not had inflationary periods, nor recession in quit in quite some time.
Debate Round No. 2
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 19 records.
Posted by mr_know_it_all 5 years ago
mr_know_it_all
wow. take a deep breath everybody and think about what you're saying. first of all, smashlove, we evolve because it is inevitable. medical advances arent going to stop because they become accessible to everybody. We consider ourselves one of the richest countries in the world, but what do we spend our money on? Hummers, ipods, plasma screens. we're a**holes, and it breaks my heart to hear a red blooded american say that it's not our 'financial responsibility' to take care of our fellow humans, whether theyre mexican immigrants, or the fortune 500 CEO's. vicious wit? healthcare wouldn't aggravate the overcrowded hospitals, but instead it would encourage people to go to the doctor when they THINK there's something wrong with them as opposed to waiting until the perforated ulcer in their stomach is causing internal bleeding. doctors could cure illnesses in a much more timely manner. taxes? somebody thinks that we're being efficient with our taxes right now? ha! it's laughable to say that fighting an oil war is a higher priority than universal healthcare, but who's laughing?! nobody! because somewhere down the line, we all bought into it. "freedom isn't free" "support our troops" does the word propaganda ring any rusty old bells up there? I understand that universal healthcare would be different for America, very different. but I'm dissatisfied, to say the least, at what's going on with America right now anyways. it's the new millenium people, there are over 6.5 billion people in the world, and that number is only growing. crack that candy shell of a skull on top of your heads and face the facts, something's gotta give! if there were 10 times the doctors, and 10 times the facilities, and 10 times the medicine, and it were all free, nobody would complain. so let's get our priorities straight before i get sick to my stomach and find myself completely helpless in the heart of the richest, most spoiled country in the world
Posted by Phil 5 years ago
Phil
I think NHC would do more harm than good to the actual healthcare of Americans. For example, I read this story about the dentists in the UK refusing to provide service to people with really bad teeth, because they take longer to treat, and the government requires the dentists to hit a quota in order to get paid.

Another way to look at it is...when's the last time the government did anything better than the private market?
Posted by magpie 5 years ago
magpie
Smile is against NHC because of the economic disater that would result.
But she thinks the rest of us would vote aginst NHC because we are mean and uncaring of others.
I think I get it: She's nice and we're not.
Posted by vicious_wit 5 years ago
vicious_wit
As a nurse, you should realize why national healthcare would be a problem:

Hospitals and doctor's offices are overcrowded as it is. If everybody can afford it, doctors will have less time with each patient, and waiting rooms will be packed from opening to closing. Already, at specialists, even, I wait for 2 hours to see a doctor for 5 minutes.

National healthcare would only aggravate the problem.
Posted by smile899 5 years ago
smile899
I think that universal health care would be exceedingly helpful, but at the same time I recognize that it will never work in the US. First of all, the majority of citizens are unwilling to give up more tax dollars to ensure the health and safety of the minority. This is to be expected; it is the epitome of American thought - to take care of yourself so you can succeed and if others can't do that, then it's their problem. Whether this is a problem of the people or the American environment is another debate altogether. Second of all, as has been previously stated, our government can't handle the responsibilities it has now, and it would be unwise to give it more. As I said before, I think a system of nationalized health care is a great idea, but it would ultimately be a catastrophic failure in the US.
Posted by rkmcdaniel 5 years ago
rkmcdaniel
The government can't even run the IRS efficiently, much less take on a universal health care program of which there is no currently established system in this country.
Posted by magpie 5 years ago
magpie
I can't improve on Goldspurs' comments, but I'd like to add: Nothing is free! Any good that is desired and does not cost the recipient to receive it will be in great demand. The excessive demand puts a strain on the good and denies that good's availability to those who need it. Have you ever observed the demand for "free" things. If a gas station offered "free" gas, the resultant line would go on for miles and couples would rotate in shifts to prevent losing their place in line. If this station were the only one within 100 miles, you and I would be willing to pay $50.00 per gallon to avoid waiting in the endless line. That's exactly what happens in Canada's medical system. Speaking of education, Economics should be mandatory in High School.
Posted by goldspurs 5 years ago
goldspurs
I find it a bit disturbing that lindsay states that," All of the other countries who DO have socialized medicine have been successful with the implementation of the program."

Sounds like something I might expect from sicko.
Number of Canadians on waiting lists for referrals to specialists or for medical services -- 875,000.

Average wait from time of referral to treatment by a specialist -- 17.8 weeks.

Shortest waiting time -- oncology, 4.9 weeks.

Longest waiting times -- orthopedic surgery, 40.3 weeks.

Average wait to get an MRI -- 10.3 weeks nationally but 28 weeks in Newfoundland.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com...

There are plenty of other drastic statistics that refute your statement that I can provide if you want. Thats alot more than a few.

You like using our education system as a reason for having health care. Last I checked our education system is failing drastically. You can't expect a goverment to tend to the health care needs of so many people. I have been in the military for 7 years and we have a form of socialized health care. It is horrible. Just look at Walter Reed. Now you want the goverment to provide this care for the whole country?
Posted by easy2know 5 years ago
easy2know
Both views seem to have valid reasons for concern, and you both debated well, ty..I have to side with lindsay as firstly she is seeing the discrimination first hand and made the most sense on how we should address this issue. My state has one the best medical coverage systems available, much of the money's come from sin tax...no one is left behind. As lindsay touched on what good is "anything" if we don't have good health..young or old..!
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Vote Placed by lindsay 4 years ago
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