The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Rjupudi18
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

nature always existed

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 140 times Debate No: 96760
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

nature is logic, logic is cause and effect, no causeless effects can exist and no effectless causes.. for eksample, as a cause causes... and as nature is life, so a god didnt create us
Rjupudi18

Con

Nature is not logic. Nature is the description and presence of the physical, natural world around us (time, space, mater). Logic is an abstract concept. It can be used to explain the natural laws but it itself doesn't take up space, time or matter. Since the Universe (time, space, matter) had a beginning, that means nature had a beginning. Everything that has a beginning must have a cause that caused it. I believe this cause is God but there are other theories going around.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

description is information, not natural

concepts are of the mind, reasoning not logic

causes cant exist without effects

well, i have to introduce another argument.. and that is that if god created nature, it would be a machine, therfore is impossible.. everything has an opposite
Rjupudi18

Con

Everything that exists in the physical universe is considered natural. Logic is not an actual object. It's our perception of what makes sense and what doesn't.

"Causes cant exist without effects". I agree. Effects can't also exist without causes. Everything that happens in the universe has a cause. In turn, the Universe itself has a cause. Science can't explain this cause. If the Universe had a beginning, it must have a cause. That cause is God. If God doesn't exist, the Universe wouldn't exist. If you deny the existence of God (the cause), you should also deny the existence of the Universe (the effect).
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

machines are mechanical

reality is logic.. logic equals cause and effect

if god cause reality it would be a machine, nature is random, not mechanical
Rjupudi18

Con

Nature is not random, it has order and follows natural laws. A machine cannot think and therefore cannot create an orderly universe. Chaos produces chaos and order produces order. There must be an intelligent Designer for the Universe to be designed the way it is.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by whiteflame 2 weeks ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Philosophy123// Mod action: Removed<

6 points to Con (S&G, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Con successfully refuted each of Pro's main statements. Pro's statements lacked coherence and did not seem to assist his point in any real way.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain sources. (2) S&G is insufficiently explained. Stating that one side lacked coherence doesn't suffice " it must be clear where the failings are in S&G and why that made Pro's argument difficult to understand. (3) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter is required to specifically analyze arguments made by both debaters. The voter does so for neither, instead just stating that one side refuted the other without explaining how.
************************************************************************
Posted by vi_spex 3 weeks ago
vi_spex
you cant truly know some one until you fight them
Posted by Philosophy123 3 weeks ago
Philosophy123
Just curious vi_spex, are you a troll because if you are you are hilarious man.
Posted by vi_spex 3 weeks ago
vi_spex
machines are specified.. an infinete chain of gods causing themselves is impossible
Posted by skipsaweirdo 3 weeks ago
skipsaweirdo
Sped, if everything has an opposite than it is possible that God is a machine that is opposite to what you think constitutes a machine therefore it would exist and be possible for it to cause nature. I.e. the opposite of what you said is impossible
Posted by vi_spex 1 month ago
vi_spex
if i pooped, id poop all over you
Posted by vi_spex 1 month ago
vi_spex
should have made this a 5 rounder
Posted by vi_spex 1 month ago
vi_spex
trying to argue with me, is trolling
Posted by ZenekPr0 1 month ago
ZenekPr0
Are you serios with your debates, or are you constantly trolling?
No votes have been placed for this debate.